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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

any of you installed a wheel for steering?

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77Gypsy
Captain

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USA
356 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/25/2003 : 14:38:08

what would something like that cost? estimate?

Steve
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy
<img src="http://www.websdf.com/logo_web.jpg" border=0>

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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2003 : 09:43:05

The cost would depend a lot on how you did this Steve. If you opt for a traditional wheel box with a rack 'n pinion system mounted on the top of the rudder (a la fishing schooner style) - and you did all the work yourself - probably less than a thousand dollars.

If you opt for an Edson system that is designed for transom hung rudders, you're probably looking at $1,500 to $2,000.

The questions is "why do you want to do this"? I've only seen one C25 with wheel steering (the Edson style) in roughly 25 years familiarity with Catalina products. This boat came into the marina where I'm at about 5 years ago, and had the Edson setup. The owner removed the wheel system a year later and never reinstalled it. I seldom see anyone aboard this boat, so don't know the details. But, it was pretty interesting to see the change unfold.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

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Mark Loyacano
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2003 : 10:49:13

My boat had an Edson system when I first looked at it. The installation did not impress me. The wheel moved a teleflex cable which was routed around tight curves through a midpoint of the stern and ended at a bracket through bolted to the rudder.
The owner had not sailed in three years. He was unaware, at the time, that the cable had completely seized up from corrosion (neglect).
I negotiated a thousand dollars off the asking price, removed it for him and it sits in his basement/bar where he lives.

Mark L.
Cat 25 SR/SK #549

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lex227
Deckhand

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4 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2003 : 16:06:46

I have an 82 C-25 swing keel, bought new. I had the steering wheel added the next year. I absolutely love it, and have had no problems with it either in terms of performance or cables.

I don't remember the price, but it was not outrageous, probably well under $500, but that was 1983.

I would highly recommend it.

The brand name is Merriman. I have a teak tray that slips on the binacle to hold snacks and drinks in the cockpit.

I will send a picture if you are interested.

Edited by - on

lex227
Deckhand

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4 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2003 : 11:26:47

Reflecting on the prior comments, I am puzzled why there are not more wheels on the C25.I have had mine almost since the "Capricorn Lady" was new in 82 and can barely remember the tiller, other than it was arkward and primative. I would never consider going back.

(I do have it on board for emergency use, but have never had it out of it's cover.)

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Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2003 : 11:43:57

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
...I am puzzled why there are not more wheels on the C25.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I specifically avoided a wheel because of my need to singlehand. I looked at and sailed a couple of 25s with wheels, a 250, and a 30 (besides many other makes in this size range). In every case, getting around the wheel to trim the sails or go forward was extremely difficult, if not impossible.

On larger boats (e.g., my best friend's Allied Seawind MKII 32 and a neighbor's Shannon 38) the cockpit has enough beam, or is laid-out, to allow singlehanding with a wheel.

If it weren't for singlehanding, I think a wheel on a 25 would be great, and would open up additional seating room in the cockpit.

J.B. Manley, Antares '86 FK/SR #4849
Grand Lake O' The Cherokees, NE Oklahoma

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jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2003 : 12:32:15

With all respect meant to those who like'em...

I'll put a wheel on Hey Jude just as soon as I finish dressing my house cat in combat boots and a tiara.

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
Half Moon Bay, CA

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lex227
Deckhand

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4 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2003 : 16:46:43

My cat, Molly, happens to like her boots to keep her feet dry in the cockpit, but the tiara does occasionly fall off in heavey weather.

I understand the theoretical concern about movement around the wheel. Some of that may have to do with the size of the wheel itself, mine is 20 inches across. I have single handed from time to time over the years and have no difficulty going forward, or handling the sails.

Just to check I went out to the "Capricorn Lady" and did a dry run getting by the wheel and it is not a problem. I am over the age of sixty and weigh more three hundred pounds.

I haven't seen any negatives. In fact, it has pluses for singlehanding since I can lock the wheel to any position I want very readily with the twist of a knob.

But to each his own.

F. Morgan
82 Cat-25 SR/SK "Capricorn Lady" #3365
Mathews VA, on the Chesapeake Bay

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Lowell
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2003 : 00:25:25

My '87 had a Merriman wheel on it when I got it. It's mounted about even with the front of the fuel locker. It has a compass mounted on the top of the steering pedestal and a guard in front of it. the pedestal guard is a great place for cup holders, engine instruments, and electronic gear. Look how they use it on bigger boats! I can sit behind the wheel while four people sit in front of it, two on either side. When I'm single handing I sit in front of the wheel. That puts me close to the winches and to the rope clutches mounted on the cabin top. The previous owner moved the main sheet traveler to a bar right at the companion way entrance so that it is also easily at hand. At first I thought that this might in the way but so far it hasn't been a problem.

My steering system uses a push/pull cable. My biggest complaint is that it doesn't allow as much rudder travel as a tiller which makes manuevering around the docks tricky. It also doesn't communicate much feel back to me. I'm considering going to some kind pull/pull system similar to one I saw in the Edson catalog.

I like the wheel!

Lowell Heenan
Dreamer 5655 SR/WK

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IndyJim
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2003 : 00:02:52

One of the allurements of my C-25 when I was shopping for a boat was the Edson wheel steering. I've done the tiller thing for years and I wouldn't go back to a tiller unless it was an emergency situation. I have one that stowed somewhere in that bottomless pit under the port settee and hope I never have to use it. I singlehand alot and have really never had a problem with my aft led lines. Last fall I invested in a Simrad wheel autopilot and about all I can say is..."Life is good!"

I can tell you for certain that the next vessel I own and sail will definitely have a wheel too!

Some like wheels on C-25's, some don't. Some like internal halyards, some don't. Some like topping lifts, some don't. Isn't that the beauty of being a skipper? You can do whatever you want on YOUR boat and its okay to be different than the C-25 skipper in the slip next to you.

Fair Winds!

Jim on "Itza Dew Sea"
'84 SK/TR #8525

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2004 : 11:17:00

Steve

[url="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2452536002&category=31281"] ebay wheel[/url]

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ppetracca
Navigator

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USA
163 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2004 : 15:48:15

Just curious....

Are any of you who love your wheel steering racers?

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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2004 : 16:23:27

Patrick: I used to race my Tartan 30 a bit, and she was Edson wheel equipped. Mostly they were downwind spinnaker, ocean runs, so the wheel was not a handicap.

On my Catalina, I have gone back to liking the tiller for it's "feel". I drive a lot by the feel of the helm that you just don't get with a wheel, IMHO.

My friend Steve Rander built a wood composite 70' sled named RAGE, a '92 vintage that beat Merlin's record to Hawaii. The new maxis that cost mega-millions can now beat him boat for boat, but, believe me, she's a witch for speed. The point is, this 70' dinghy is steered with a TILLER!

Gary B.
Encore! #685 SK/SR
Vice Commodore

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Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2004 : 22:09:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ppetracca
 Just curious....

Are any of you who love your wheel steering racers?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have wheel steering on my C250wk. I wouldn't say I'm a diehard racer. I race as much as possible at our lake.

We have 2 regatta's a year at our lake and that is it. In 2003 we won the spring 7 race regatta, the fall regatta and we won the C250 Nationals in Syracuse Indiana.

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2004 : 06:49:46

One of my concerns with the c25 is storing people when we are sailing. As others have pointed out, a wheel opens up the cockpit. But I have also noticed that when I go forward osmepneo cavitates, so I start wondering about boat balance - fore to aft. I've also noticed that when I sit in the back of the cockpit to play ob games, the bracket starts throwing its own wake. I suspect effecting boat speed speed significantly (altho" I've never checked). So I conclude that osmepneo is sensative to fore-aft weight distribution, and a wheel would tend to put me in the back, pushing down the transom. In my mind, IMHO, that is very big disadvantage of wheel steering on boats our size.

Like Gary I sail by feel, and all my life. Again in MHO the time to think wheel is when the boat is big enough to take away the feel of the helm.

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ppetracca
Navigator

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USA
163 Posts

Response Posted - 01/08/2004 : 08:44:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">So I conclude that osmepneo is sensative to fore-aft weight distribution<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Exactly my point about the wheel on the C25...Our boats are very sensitive. If you sit to far back in my boat when sailing, the transom drags horribly, especially in light air. If someone is working on the pulpit with the jib she plows. That's why I can't see why anyone would want a wheel on a C25 unless sailing efficiently is not a concern to them. When I race, no one sits aft of the tiller handle end. (My favorite place to helm from is sitting on the side next to the jib sheet winch using the tiller extension.) When we're just cruising around the lake, anything is allowed. I've found on my boat the most balance position for steering is standing in the cockpit center in front of the tiller. The drawback is this does not allow a lot of room for crew to trim the headsail.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I have wheel steering on my C250wk<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have no experience with a 250. I do not know the sailing characteristics. It may not be an issue on this boat. The only 250 in our marina is tiller steered and I've only been aboard at the slip.

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