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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Jib sail

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77Gypsy
Captain

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USA
356 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/01/2003 : 01:13:45

I'm thinking about getting rid of my roller furler 150% genoa and going to an old fashioned hanked on jib, maybe a 110%. I love simplicity and I also want better up wind preformance. any thoughts on the size of jib I should explore? 100%, 110%, 120% etc.

Steve
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy
<img src="http://www.websdf.com/logo_web.jpg" border=0>

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Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2003 : 08:15:22

Obviously, you will need more than one sail. I dumped my roller furling and bought a new Ulman 150 from Catalina Direct. That's what I use 90% of the time. The other 10%, I use a 110 I bought from a member of this list. Evidently, the 110 is "stock". If you don't want to buy a new genoa, you can have your roller furling sail fitted with hanks for about $200. (That's what I was quoted, although it sounds really high for what you're getting).

Bruce Baker
Falls Church, VA
"Yee Ha" 3573
'83SR/SK

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Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2003 : 08:38:45

One issue with converting a roller sail to hanks is that most roller sails are cut to a higher clew, for a smooth roll and better visibility for cruising. For performance, you want a "deck sweeper" like Derek's (see the pic on any of his posts) made of that see-thu mylar/kevlar stuff that takes the skin off your hands when you flake and bag it... <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2003 : 11:00:47

Hi Steve,

A 110 is a good working sail; and I have one that was original on the boat when shipped new in 1985. I still use it from time to time.

But the working sail that I use most is my 97% Blade jib. The clew corner extends just short of the mast and the foot is a deck sweeper. The big difference is that the luff is a full hoist luff that is the same length as a 155% genny. The sail tacks easily and is great up wind.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2003 : 11:04:55

Bill, who built that jib for you ?

Some of our best sailing here is on the leading and trailing edges of winter storms... that cut of jib might be an ideal sail for this venue.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2003 : 11:32:07

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I'm thinking about getting rid of my roller furler 150% genoa and going to an old fashioned hanked on jib, maybe a 110%. I love simplicity and I also want better up wind preformance. Any thoughts on the size of jib I should explore? 100%, 110%, 120% etc.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Wouldn't jib size/selection depend on the prevailing winds for your area?

I'm assuming that since you want a 110 jib, the prevailing winds in your area are on the stronger side and you are losing upwind performance due to partially rolling up the 150 which adversely affects sail shape and performance. Is this close?

If so, before you go to the time and expense of dumping your furler and adding a couple of new hanked on sails to your inventory, you may want to look into having a foam luff added to your current headsail. Supposedly, a foam luff gives one a better sail shape when the headsail is partially furled so performance is increased over a wider range of wind conditions.

In my area the prevailing winds are usually on the moderate to strong side and my 140 furling headsail seems ideal for these conditions,...not too big and not too small. When the winds pipe up I sometimes roll in the headsail to reduce sail, but I find that it doesn't take more than a couple of turns before it starts to lose it's shape, and with that, performance. Quite often, when the winds are particulary strong, I'll leave the main on the boom and sail with just the full genoa. In stronger winds, I find I get better performance flying just the full 140 headsail than I do with the main and the genoa reduced to a 100 due to the poor shape of the partially furled headsail(it looks more like a deformed parachute than a foil). In fact, there are times when I've consistently reached hull speed with just the full genoa.

So if you are cruising in conditions that warrant a 100 or 110 headsail, instead of partially furling the 150, try dousing the main and flying just the full genoa...you might be surprised by the performance difference.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2003 : 12:18:13

Can't you have it both ways? Indiscipline has a roller furled 155 genny and a permanent headstay for hoisting hanked on sails. You simply roll the furled sail, drop it to the deck, tie it alongside, and use the halyard to hoist one of your hanked on headsails on the headstay. We have a 110, 135 and 150 hanked on sails, plus spinnaker.

Using this rig you can also run dual headsails (haven't tried that yet). Roller sail to one side and hanked on sail to the other. Would be great for a downwind run in the trades (Galapagos to Tahiti, anyone?). Too bad I can't figure out a way to make it into a Cutter.

As I've said before, our boat was raced extensively by the PPO and then converted to a racer/cruiser by the PO and now to a long range cruiser by the CO.

<img src="http://www.indiscipline.org/cat25/pictures/icon.jpg" border=0>Indiscipline 1978 FK #398

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2003 : 21:43:06

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Can't you have it both ways?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Absolutely! Even with the furler, he can always take down the 150 and put up a 110. A lot of racers, even America's Cup racers, use a headsail system like "Tuff Luff" which is basically a furler extrusion without the drum. It makes for speedier headsail changes because you can put up a sail before dousing the other and since it uses luff tape, there are no hanks to deal with.

My Harken furler as two slots to facilitate quick sail changes.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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Thunderheart
Deckhand

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11 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2003 : 23:05:45

Thus topic reminded me of a question I had for the forum. The C25 I'm attempting to purchase had only three sails in it's inventory, each in it's own bag which appear to be original equipment. Two of the sailbags were clearly marked "Main" and "150% Genoa". However, the third bag was simply marked "Jib". Is there a "standard" set of sails that the C25 came with and if so, what size is this sail?

Dallas Posey

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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2003 : 11:12:12

First to ClamBeach: The 97% Blade jib was made for be by the Seattle North Sails loft. 6.5 oz dacron.

To JimB: Here's another way to sail with two headsails. http://www.catalina25-250.org/photo/snickd2.jpg
I've got my drifter jib set to starboard and wung out with a whisker pole; and my cruising spinnaker set to port. Wing 'n Wing, I sailed on a downwind run in very light (less than 5 knots) conditions for about eight nm. I sailed by everything in front of me. The photo was taken by some friends in a C & C 30 that I was passing at the time.

To Dallas: The standard size jib for the C25 from the factory was a 110%.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2003 : 11:30:45

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>However, the third bag was simply marked "Jib". Is there a "standard" set of sails that the C25 came with and if so, what size is this sail?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

A headsail is measured in relation to the fore-triangle and is usually represented by a number or percentage that is based on a boat's J dimension. A 150% genoa means that the luff perpendicular(LP) measurement of that sail is 1.5 times that of the boat's J dimension(distance from the mast to the forestay stem).

To determine the size of the headsail, divide the luff perpendicular(LP) measurement, which is the distance from the clew to the closest point on the luff, by the C25's "J" dimension of 10.5ft, which is the distance from the forestay stem to the mast.

For example, if your headsail LP measurement is 11.55ft, then it is 1.1 times that of the J dimension(10.5ft) or 110%.

11.55ft(LP) divided by 10.5ft(C25 "J") = 1.1 or 110%

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2003 : 11:33:24

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The C25 I'm attempting to purchase had only three sails in it's inventory, each in it's own bag which appear to be original equipment. Two of the sailbags were clearly marked "Main" and "150% Genoa". However, the third bag was simply marked "Jib". Is there a "standard" set of sails that the C25 came with and if so, what size is this sail?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Dallas - My '85 FK/SR has four sail bags (and sails), three identical to yours plus one marked "Storm". The order form/commissioning ticket shows that the Mainsail and Jib (110%) came standard, while the Genoa (150%) and Storm (80%) were add-ons ordered at the point of purchase. The Mainsail and Jib bags on Antares are lightweight, blue and white, and marked with a black C25 logo; no sail loft is indicated. The Genoa and Storm bags are heavyweight, orange and blue, and marked with our local sail loft's logo. Antares' mainsail, tiller and winch covers were special ordered at commissioning and were made by the local sail loft, as well.

J.B. Manley, Antares '85 FK/SR #4849
Grand Lake O' The Cherokees, NE Oklahoma

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Thunderheart
Deckhand

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11 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2003 : 18:20:09

Thanks for the replies on the size of the "standard" jib. I did know about the size being expressed as a percentage of fore-triangle, but couldn't take the sail out of the bag to measure. I guess they didn't mark the bag because it was part of the standard sail inventory.

BTW, the jib I mentioned had been laying in the fore-peak directly under a minor leak in the hatch. It was moist and had a good bit of mildew on it. I figure this could not be a good environment for the sail to be stored in for over 2 years. What material are the standard sails made of and what are the implications of the moisture and mildew for the jib's condition?

KDP

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Shawn
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2003 : 22:28:01

Bill,
Great pic, I hope you have it framed and hanging in your home.
Shawn

Shawn
1980 C25 tr/fk #1960

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