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troubleshooting Honda BF8A

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/03/2003 : 19:40:16

Ok, it's the 80 lb pre 2001 model. (Thankfully getting it off the boat was not bad).

Last Saturday, after 2 weeks of running every day, it would not start. Yesterday I went down and it started on the first pull. I ran it about an hour, in the slip, in gear and at various throttle settings. Ran fine. I cleaned the carb with B12 Chemtool.

I shut it down and started it again, and flushed the motor. I waited about 3 hours and TRIED to start it again. Nothing. Just like the week before. I tried starting fluid. Nothing. Would not start after 100 pulls.

Brought the motor home. I don't believe it's the carb, I think it's an intermittent electrical problem. I mean, the carb is either fouled or not. I can't imagine an intermittent problem. I pulled every wire and cleaned all connections. All were good except one.

I found the pulsar coil, which connects to the CDI with a green and white wire had terrible green corrosion all over the white wire at the connector between the coil and the CDI. I'm talking a very bad connection. Looked like green toothpaste. According to the Seloc manual, the pulsar is not just for the lighting coil, it's also an important part of the timing circuit (also known as the exciter). I cut, soldered, liquid electrical taped, and taped this wire. It's a clean connection now.

Do you think this bad connection could be the cause of my motor's symptoms? If there is something else wrong I could take it to the repair shop tomorrow and probably go sailing next weekend. If this is not the fix it will be 2 weekends shot.

I also took the opportunity to clean everything inside the motor, lube, and change the oil.

<img src="http://www.indiscipline.org/cat25/pictures/icon.jpg" border=0>Indiscipline 1978 FK #398

Edited by - on

Mark Loyacano
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2003 : 20:08:24

Perhaps, yes. Also, once hot your engine electrical system may behave differently than when cold (resistance?).

Mark L.
Cat 25 SR/SK #549

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Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2003 : 21:17:13

Did you try cranking it? If it fires, even with no water, a few revolutions aren't going to overheat and damage it. Any major corrosion like that is a major suspect--I believe you're on to your problem. My 1996 Honda 8 had a similar problem, in this case involving the coil, due to corrosion caused by a cooling hose popping off a fitting inside the cowling--spraying salt water everywhere. I concluded that a wiring bundle that was tied to the hose helped pull it off, due some tension it created. I cut the wire tie, and recommend anyone else with a similar vintage engine do the same.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - on

mroettersr
Navigator

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USA
148 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2003 : 01:21:11

A friend of mine's power boat had problems so I took a look at it. I found a wire that had reasonably clean connections but upon futher examination, I found the wire within the insulation had become a lot of powdery crap. You may want to inspect the wires further checking resistance and even outright continuty. Good Luck.

Mike Roetter
'83 C25 #3568 SK/SR
Marblehead on Lake Erie

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2003 : 09:51:57

Hopefully we will be getting a report of success today...

One of the first things I'd check is to see if you have spark. Takes 2 people... one to hold the plug body grounded against the head and another to crank the engine. You should get a nice fat blue spark.

I'd probably hold the plug with some wrapped up rags to prevent any shocking developments.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2003 : 10:02:22

"I mean, the carb is either fouled or not. I can't imagine an intermittent problem. "

Unfortunately, I've seen intermittent carb problems. Usually from a bit of 'hard debris' that alternately gets stuck over a jet then breaks free for awhile. Maddening !

At that point, dismantling and cleaning the carb is the only thing that fixes the problem... chemtool (though a great product) won't do any good against a loose chunk of debris.

I think the EPA pollution rules have the newer engines really 'leaned out' which makes them more sensitive to fuel system issues.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2003 : 10:48:43

Jim,

I'm sorry about your problems, but your discussion of your gave me a new place to look when I have the next episode of non-start with osmepneo's %^^$$ Honda 8. thanks for the info.

If you can test it at home, perhaps in a garbage can, it would save you returning to the boat and putting the ob on and finding out it didn't work.

keep us all posted. thanks.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2003 : 13:49:31

At home on the bench I pulled both jets (main and idle) from the carb and they were clean.

On that first Saturday when it wouldn't start I pulled the plugs and was getting a spark. The cylinders were dry (not flooded). Spark seemed a little weak. New plugs and fuel filter was installed before our vacation cruise.

When I cleaned the wire from the pulsar coil, I stripped far enough back from the connector to find clean copper.

It's a long drive from San Diego to Dana Point and I may not get to test the motor until next week (I left the gas tank and line on board).

I do have clearance from the Admiral to buy a new Yamaha T8 (8 HP extra long shaft, high thrust, electric start, 110 lbs). But it's $2650 - a very dear amount of $ right now.

<img src="http://www.indiscipline.org/cat25/pictures/icon.jpg" border=0>Indiscipline 1978 FK #398

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calmii
Deckhand

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USA
11 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2003 : 11:59:14

Jim,

If you want the new Yamaha do NOT read this.

I had a similar problem with my Honda BF 9.9A. I took it into the dealer, and awaited a call back. While waiting I came upon a nice shinny new Honda High thrust 8XL. The wind was coming up and so was the weekend. I was SURE that there was something serious with my 9.9. Well.... Long-story-short 2 days after mounting my NEW Honda the dealer called and said that it was an "easy fix" that he replaced the CDI and that the 9.9 was running great. Cost around $300.00. DOH! Now I have a New 8 AND a 1992 9.9 that runs great...

Cal Mosher
Tacoma WA, C-27, TR, OB, dinette

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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2003 : 12:11:05

Its not a fuel problem, Have faith in yourself. It sounds to me like you found the problem. Were there any other connections you could clean up. If not I think I would trust what you found.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2003 : 12:13:13

The motor started on the first pull and ran fine all weekend. Don't neglect the wires if you're having an intermittent starting problem. The pulsar coil is an important part of your engine's timing.

<img src="http://www.indiscipline.org/cat25/pictures/icon.jpg" border=0>Indiscipline 1978 FK #398

Edited by - on

gnorgan
Admiral

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USA
563 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2003 : 23:59:19

Jim, you don't have to actually have the motor on the boat to test it next time. I got a hose adapter with my 97 model 8hp Honda that just clips onto the water intake port. Mount the motor to something solid at home (saw horse, or?) and attach the hose and start your engine! I've used this at the ocean to flush out the salt water in the past. Another way would be to stick the motor in a trash can of water with the motor mounted to the saw horse.
Hemet, CA
P.S. There's also some pictures in the tech site on this flushing out the Honda with this attachment.

Gary & Susie Norgan
1989 C25 tall/wing
Classical Cat #5944
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc35b3127cce94ddf43b35f60000001010" border=0>

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2003 : 13:53:33

After two weekends now the motor is working great so I am sure I found the problem. In fact with the the tune up, carb adjustment, cleaning the jets, etc it is running smoother than ever (probably that wire was bad for a long time).

I left the gas tank, line, and hose adaptor on board or else I would have found some way to start it at home.

I have not installed the tech tip flushing kit for two reasons - one it's not that hard to put the hose adaptor on, and two I am afraid of a leak inside the engine cover - I wouldn't know about it and it would spray salt water everywhere!

<img src="http://www.indiscipline.org/cat25/pictures/icon.jpg" border=0>Indiscipline 1978 FK #398

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2003 : 08:56:09

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
examination, I found the wire within the insulation had become a lot of powdery crap. You may want to inspect the wires further checking Mike Roetter
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

This is the biggest problem with keeping any kind of boat in salt water. The fiberglass and stainless steel parts will be okay, but every piece of wire in the electrical system is at risk of sooner or later absorbing salt under the insulation, which quickly destroys the copper conductor. The fully-tinned "marine-grade" wire is supposed to last longer, but I have heard that even this wire will eventually degrade in a saltwater environment. The wiring in an outboard motor is probably exposed to more salt than any other part of a Catalina 25 electrical system except maybe shorepower and deck/mast recerptacles.

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25 #1205 "Quiet Time"
Sacramento, CA

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