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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

ice box solutions

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Sunshine Daydream
1st Mate

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57 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/24/2003 : 22:32:53

Anybody have any ideas on how to improve the ice box? Insulation? Replacement?

Scott

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frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2003 : 22:51:15

Read somewhere, can't remember if it was in the forum or Sail Mag., that a guy purchased some close cell hard foam insulation 1 1/2" thick, cut it to fit the sides and bottom, then use some spray type glue on the foam stuck it around the box. Then use the foam in a can "Great Stuff" to fill in the remaining cracks. He said it worked great.

Sure have nothing to lose by giving it a shot, plus it is cheap.

Frog and the General
79 C25 Wing #1166
Pretty Penny

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Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2003 : 23:49:21

Hi Scott,

Antares icebox was factory insulated, approximately 1", but wasn't working well when I obtained her. However, three fairly easy modifications have improved its performance considerably. First, I plugged the drain hole with a cork to keep the cold air from dropping down the drain. Second, I placed a thin rubber seal around the edges of the opening. Third, I replaced the warped, teak lid with the starboard and Coleman thermoelectric modification that can be found in the C25 Technical Tips. Two 20 pound bags of ice now last almost three full days in 100+ degree heat, and my beer and water are still incredibly cold at the end of the third day.

J.B. Manley, Antares '85 FK/SR #4849
Grand Lake O' The Cherokees, NE Oklahoma

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 00:46:04

Scott,
<center>C-25 Icebox Mods by Mr. Overkill</center>

In preparation for my trip to the Bahamas, I made the following changes the stock C-25 icebox situation.

Stock Icebox

I added insulation inside using blue foam to end up with all right angle vertical interior corners with a minimum thichness around 1-1/2 inches. This meant adding over 5 inches in the upper forward outboard corner. I also arranged for the floor to slope inboard and forward maybe an inch, and moved the drain location slightly. I added a small sump around the drain, maybe 2 to 3 oz. volume, with a 1/2" PVC ball valve shut-off in the drain line which still T's into the galley sink drain above the bronze and stainless ball valve seacock. I also insulated the stock lid with 2 inches of blue foam encapsulated in a thin skin of epoxy fiberglass and sealed with a soft foam gasket. That holds 14 lbs of cube ice for about 2 or 3 days. The down side is a usable volume of less than a cubic foot.

Suplimental Cruising Icebox

Under the aft dinette seat, I converted the outboard 3/4 of the compartment to a second icebox. This one is insulated with 3" of blue foam and a 1/2" layer of the foil-backed foam outside that. The lid is a 45 degree taper fit with dual soft foam gaskets, and is also insulated with 3" of blue foam. The drain is sealed with a 1/2" PVC ball valve shut-off. The drain line ends in the remaining 1/4 of the dinette seat compartment, and has to be drained into a shallow Tupperware tray and then dumped one quart at a time. This auxilary icebox is only used on long trips. It holds 10 lbs of cube ice backed up with 10 lbs of block ice for up to a week. This box ended up with a usable volume of maybe two cubic feet.

Sanitary Icebox Liners

Both iceboxes are lined with smooth fiberglass panels sealed at the seams with thickened epoxy fillets, and coated with two layers of white tinted epoxy resin. On a month-long trip, it was easy to keep both icebox interiors clean enough that I didn't mind using the melted ice water for washing dishes and bathing (after heating it on the propane-converted stove).

-- Leon Sisson

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 00:52:18

Reinventing the Wheel

Great answers. Also try Don Casey's "This Old Boat" and the following:

http://www.sailboatowners.com/forums/pview.tpl?sku=2003236132916.31&forumabr=as&fno=21

Good luck, SD, and until you do. use BLOCK ICE, cubes'll go way too fast!

Stu

Edited by - Stu Jackson C34 No. 224 1986 on 08/25/2003 00:53:14

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n/a
deleted

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163 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 08:43:07

Fill empty gallon milk or juice jugs about 2/3 full with water and freeze. Use for your ice. As they melt you have additional drinking water.

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Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 08:50:29

The best improvement to the ice box is to fill it with your pots and pans and/or dry food, plug the drain, and buy a nice portable cooler you can take on and off the boat. Get some eye straps and quick-release webbing, and create a place in the quarterberth or elsewhere to buckle the cooler in.

The ice box was a cute idea from Frank Butler, but IMHO it's pretty much a joke on a boat this small. It's much better used for storage of non-perishable items, and a portable cooler is ever so much easier to replenish with ice and food.

Brooke

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deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 09:34:38

Here on the Vineyard ice blocks can be purchased for $5. So I upgraded "Wood Duck's" ice box following lines similar to other posts here. I used blue styrofoam insulating board (picked up several large pieces free from a neigboring constructions site--asked first!) and attached it and filled the gaps with a single can of non-expanding foam insulant ( recommend you NOT use the expanding foam), which is available at most hardware stores for about $7. That block now lasts three days. I also keep a cork in the drain. I am told melted icewater is still a better coolant than air. And I have a wire rack ($1 at Ace hardware's dollar sale) to keep stuff dry that needs to be.

I keep a an empty coolchest in the lazarette (where it stays put), and I use that for ferrying ice from the pos to the boat. And for ferrying food back-and-forth.

Popular Sailor has a very good article this summer evaluating 12v thermo-electric coolers, which are relatively cheap ($120), effective, but still a drain on power unless you are in an electric-equipped berth. As an additional advantage, they can be used in reverse to warm stuff up in the winter (useful for those who store their steaks in the bilges during cold weather).

Dave on "Wood Duck" (#2616)

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 09:48:44

Curious... anyone have a report on the longevity of dry ice in these coolers?

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 11:49:30

I agree with Charles and Brooke. Our "ice box" is for storing tall items. You can even fill those jugs to within a couple of inches before freezing. You'll never beat a good cooler for efficiency, accessability, and capacity.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 12:31:39

Ditto. Use 'icebox' for dry foods & storage. It's much more efficient to use portable coolers for the other stuff.

Paul C25FK Sparky
'PZ' W7JVY KFS/KTK/KLB/KOK/WNU/KPH/WCC/VAI/VAJ

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Sunshine Daydream
1st Mate

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57 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 14:00:02

What an awesome forum!! Thanks

Scott

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 15:26:46

In case you haven't experienced it, Scott, the one thing to watch when storing stuff in the icebox is that if you have the seacock closed, the sink will drain into the icebox. <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> I even recall reports of seawater getting in when the seacock was left open on a heavy starboard tack... If you decide to go with dry storage, plug the drain or disconnect it (capping off that side of the T fitting).

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 20:03:23

Does anyone have the "skinny" on those thermo electric peltier device coolers? I've been toying with the idea of buying one for years, but all the info on the cartons indicates that they will cool to only 40 degrees below ambient temperature. Since on a hot day, indoor ambient reaches over 90 degrees on Silver Girl, won't the box reach temperatures of over 50 degrees and won't the thermo electric cooler act as a heater and actually melt any ice in the box (which I would place in it to help cool it off), or warm up items which I place in the box which are already cooler than that?

Thanks, Mark, Silver Girl '83 tall rig

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jsummerfield
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 21:32:12

There is a nice idea using a thermo electric peltier device cooler from the lid mounted Igloo box in the technical tips on this site.

John
C25 3973 FK/SR
"Texas Tango"

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Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2003 : 11:21:34

Mark,

The thermoelectric cooler lid does an EXCELLENT job of extending the life of the ice you put in the icebox. However, it absolutely will not keep the icebox cold itself. I tested my unit by completely drying and then placing an ice cold six pack in the icebox. I let the thermoelectric run for a week, and it was the WORST tasting, luke warm beer I've ever had to drink. <img src=icon_smile_dead.gif border=0 align=middle>

J.B. Manley, Antares '85 FK/SR #4849
Grand Lake O' The Cherokees, NE Oklahoma

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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2003 : 13:38:26

Previous owner beefed up the insulation of the outside of the icebox with styrofoam pieces taped together with duct tape and the voids filled with spray foam -- I'm glad HE did it.

I glued a 1/2" piece of styrofoam to the underside of the lid. Also helpful is a cheap space blanket, folded to about 2' x 1.5', covering everything after the icebox is filled and sort of tucking in around the sides. These easy additions added about 1.5 days of cooling ability.

I also have a plug in the drain, probably not so much for insulation, but to keep salt water out.

For ice, I usually fill an empty milk jug about 90% full and freeze. My young kids like juice boxes and my wife likes boxes of those fancy green teas. I pre-freeze a bunch of these and put them on top of everything (but under the space blanket).

I don't like using a large separate cooler, because space is a premium on my boat, however I keep all meats (pre-frozen) in a separate, small (6-pack size) igloo-type cooler.

I am very satisfied with this setup because it stores and keeps things cool about 5 days.

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

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ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2003 : 21:55:17

Over the years have tried various schemes, so here is my opinion. Have used built-in iceboxes maybe four/five boats, on two added lots of insulation, as mentioned in other posts. On other boats, more of them (begins to sound like serious boat pathology, here) have used separate coolers. Had better luck with the coolers, often used two or even three when space permitted. One would be used just for frozen food, would pre-partially-cook chicken, steak, chops, etc, double-wrap and pack them and pre-cooked and frozen stew around the block ice, usually 50-75 p[onds in blocks of 25 each. Have thrown out ice chunks after 10 days with this scheme in NY summers. The other ice chests were started with a mix of block and bag, condiments, BEER and other staples, etc, and refreshed as harbors permitted. The admiral is an ice freak and will NOT live without the stuff, whiulst I was prepared to do without it. You can see who won. Most bilt-in iceboxes are (a) miniscule (b) disfunctional ergonomically (c) of poor design for cooling, IMHO. Hope this prompts you to experiment, ron srsk #2343 Orion SW FL

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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2003 : 22:10:10

Just a heads up. If you use caned foam use low expantion foam / closed cell. If you use the hardware stuff when it has no room left to expand it can and will deform any adjacent fiberglass. Hull or otherwise. Try purchasing it at a refrigeration store.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

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ddlyle
Captain

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302 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2003 : 09:34:18

Someone asked about dry ice...
I don't think it will work very well for keeping food in a small cooler. Good drinking water frozen in plastic bottles is like block ice, lasts long and then becomes good drinking water again.
Dry ice will dissipate fairly soon even if left undisturbed.
If you packed a regular cooler full of dry ice and didn't disturb it (open it) for two days, you might still have some dry ice left after two days.
But frankly, people open their coolers to get stuff. That warm air rushes in and the cool carbon dioxide exits. The air moving around makes the dry ice dissipate sooner.

Dry ice is SO COLD -109 F) that it will likely make something it sits next too so hard that it would be difficult to use until it thaws.
My friend Carl (who owns an ice company and was my former employer) went on a week long cruise and he was charged with bringing the ice cream.
He packed it in dry ice (he'd been in the ice business all his life since his dad started the company), but the ice cream was so hard that they couldn't eat it.
Dry ice is hard to find in a retail market and is best used for other speciallized purposes.
Frozen bottled water is available at home.
You can find articles on ways to carry foods that don't need to be chilled (excluding beer and steaks) and developing menus that are creative in that way. Thus dependence on ice can be reduced.

Cap'n Dave
Sailing The Blues
1986 C25 sr/sk #5413

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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2003 : 12:56:35

I was just out sailing for two weeks. I have the same type ice box on Triska as the C-25. I put two blocks of ice in the bottom and used crushed ice for the rest. The two blocks were 1/2 and 1/3 still there after two weeks. I had to refill with crushed ice every 3 days. The water jug thing works well. One more idea I used was to keep the inside of the ice box covered with a space blanket.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

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John Bixby
Navigator

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118 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2003 : 13:20:55

I PUT A/C PINK FOAM CUT TO SIZE, SEALED THE CORNERS WITH A/C ALUM. TAPE AND FILLED THE VOIDS WITH CAN FOAM. THREE BAGS OF ICE AND DRINKS LASTED ABOUT 6 HOURS IN TEXAS HEAT, NOW IT LAST 3 DAYS.
JOHN ON MS ACHSA IN GALVESTON

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