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What does it take to tow a C-25

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Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
468 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/24/2003 : 13:24:07

I'm getting close to buying a 25 to retire on, and I'm fantasizing about spending summers in Puget Sound, Long Island Sound, Chesapeake and the Gulf of Calif. What I'm wondering, and haven't found specific "official" documentation on, is how strong a motor vehicle would be needed to pull my dream. The archived postings for this list (as of August 2003) don't seem to have any such info.

I know there are hundreds of 25's being towed short distances, around boatyards and dry-storage yards, but I'd appreciate hearing from people who've had noteworthy successes OR FAILURES at cross-country hauls. What does - or does not - work well on the interstates and through upland grades? Thanks in advance!

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2003 : 15:16:01

All that follows is IMHO stuff.

I haven't towed the C25 very far yet, but have drug other boats around the mountains of Northern California quite a bit. By using good equipment and applying some common sense, I've never had any trouble trailering. (touch wood) I've passed lots of other folks alongside the road who have.

Since you plan on moving around a lot, your tow vehicle needs are the same as if you were towing a large 'travel' trailer cross-country.

My recommended weapon of choice for this task is a heavy duty diesel 3/4 or 1 ton pickup with a factory 'towing package' including a heavy-duty frame hitch.

With one of these rigs, you'll be up in the 12,000 lb tow rating territory and pulling the Catalina won't be a challenge. The diesel engine is an extra expense up front, but will hold up under heavy loads and you'll smile every time you pass the gas pump.

My 7,500 lb (empty) diesel 4x4 truck gets 22 mpg on the highway. With 40 gallons of fuel capacity, the truck runs longer than my bladder will take. If you get a gas rig, you'll be expecting about half that mpg or less.

Having 4 wheel drive is a very nice feature for handling slippery boat ramps and bad weather. The dual-range transfer case that you'll get with a 4x4 will allow you to creep around very slowly.

Unlike the old days, modern 4WD packages are trouble-free, not intrusive and the extra you pay for one will be returned to you when you sell the truck.

Adding a cab-high canopy will allow your extra 'stuff' to be kept safe and dry without loading down the boat, It also makes a nice place to snooze without mounting the boat.

Ford, Dodge, Chevy... opinions abound on the best one... I say take your pick based on your personal preferences and comfort levels. All of the newer models from these manufacturers will do the job and then some.

Possibly the single most important thing for trouble-free trailing is getting the very best trailer setup you can afford and keeping it in 'Bristol' shape.

Here's a list of the 'best stuff'...

Galvanized Frame and Wheels
Rubber torsion suspension (no springs to rust)
Plenty of extra load rating.. 6,000 lbs is minimum.
Stainless steel disk brakes on both axles.
Bearing protectors (naturally)
Waterproof LED trailer lights, trailer wired using marine wire,
all wire connections run to a sealed j-box on the tongue
Top-quality tires, jacks, spare, air, wheel lock, good set of tools.

Check/change/service your wheel bearings and seals often! By my observations, this is the number one cause of the 'boat alongside the road' syndome.

Check your bearings for heat buildup at every stop. Check lug nuts and tire pressures every fuel up, look the tires over too, trailer tires tend to take some 'abuse'.

Brake fluid should be bled often to purge moisture accumulation and the brakes examined for problems and wear.

With a big trailer, you shouldn't be in a hurry, but other folks may be... so be courteous and pull over and let them by if you're holding them back.

Take care of the above and it's no-worries.

End IMHO rant.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

joe keith
1st Mate

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USA
26 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2003 : 22:12:52

I second the 3/4 ton diesel opinion.

I am in Colorado (high altitude and big hills) and have a dodge 3/4 with a 360 gas engine. The truck controls the 25 just fine but that 360 is working very hard and can ofen just maintain 55-60 mph on the easy interstate grades. I am sure it will slow down on the harder ones. Wish I had a diesel for our up coming cross country trips. Problem is I don't want to listen to the diesel the rest of the time.

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 02:19:45

I used our Jeep Grand Cherokee to tow the 25 about 90 miles to San Francicso Bay. The Jeep had plenty of power to pull it, but its light weight was not much fun. Somewhere between 50 and 55 it would start to shimmy and shake and I didn't even have rings on my fingers nor bells on my toes. On returning the admrial and I started looking for a new tow truck. We ended up with a 1 ton duelie, with full four door seating. It has the biggest gas motor chevy puts out and has all the extra factory coolers that can fit under the hood. The big difference is weight of vehicle. According to the little piece of paper in the engin compartment this little puppy tips the scale at about 10,000 lbs.
I have taken the boat to the SF bay, Montery, and for a real test it has twice goen to Huntington Lake, CA. The last one is about a climb to 7000 feet in about 50 feet. If you go there you will know what I mean. The important thing when towing on this kind of road is "DOWN SHIFT WHEN GOING DOWN HILL". I have passed up people on the side of the road on the huntington trip waiting for the brakes to cool down. If you got a big engin use it to do its job. On the highway I cought myself doing 70 so be carefull towing a boat the law says 55 and tickets are expensive.

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 13:08:46

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Problem is I don't want to listen to the diesel the rest of the time.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I just traded in my 2001 Ford F250 4x4 crew cab with a 7.3 liter diesel for a new Ford 2003 F350 4x4 crew cab with a 6.0-liter diesel. The new diesel has more torque and more horsepower and gets better gas mileage than the 7.3 and the biggest plus the engine is as quiet as a gas motor. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

The 2001 pulled my C250wk like a dream. Recently went on a 3000 mile round trip handled it great.

Joes Keith,

What lake do you sail on in Colorado? I sail at Pueblo Reservoir.

Bryan Beamer
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d935b3127cce8ab87c3b48020000000010" border=0>
Daylight Again
C250wk #495
2003 National Champion

Edited by - on

joe keith
1st Mate

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USA
26 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 22:56:38

Bryan,

We have a slip at the south shore marina on Pueblo. We have the 85 FKSR at the far dock with the red sail cover. It is new to us this year. We had a Capri 18 before that, also at the south shore. We have taken the Capri to Jackson Wyoming and Dillon several times. Hope to take the 25 to the Gulf islands and maybe to the Sea of Cortez sometime.

Are you at the north or south shore?

Edited by - on

cch
Navigator

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202 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 23:57:51

Lee,

I feel we had the perfect vehicle to tow a C25. It was a GMC Suburban. It had a V8 (not the largest) towing package, four wheel drive and transmission cooler.

When we first purchased our boat we lived in the mountains west of Denver and slipped our boat in Pueblo reservoir (about a 150 mile trip one way) The Suburban did a great job pulling the boat to and from our home to the reservoir. We towed the boat down through the mountains into Arizona and again the Suburban was fantastic in all conditions. When we moved from Colorado to Florida the Suburban towed the boat at 70 to 75 mph, hour after hour, out running snow flurries. Being long, heavy and powerful the Suburban was very comfortable and stable under all conditions. The four wheel drive really helped pulling up steep boat ramps and the few times we pulled the boat in snow (hope that never happens again)

All in all the Sububan had:
enough power to pull the boat everywhere we ever took it (ask anyone about Eisenhower tunnel in Colorado)
incredible comfort and stability (more than a truck)
lots of room to store and lock up extra gear
large gas tank meaning fewer stops
great traction due to four wheel drive

Recently we traded the Suburban in for a GMC Yukon which is about the same vehicle but shorter. Yesterday we pulled the boat out of the water on to the trailer for the first time in six years. The Yukon worked well with plenty of power but the two wheel drive allowed the tires to slip a bit as we pulled up out of the water. Even though the Yukon was easier to manuever due to being shorter, the ride was choppy and less stable than the Suburban.

I would recommend a long, heavy, powerful vehicle with four wheel drive, towing package and transmission cooler.

Chris Hunsicker
Panama City FL
Moonglade
80 C25 #2126 sr/sk
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d636b3127cce8c9d4c83e7890000002010" border=0>

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2003 : 00:09:29

Joe,

Daylight Again is at the North Shore Marina dock #341. We have been sailing out of the North Shore since 1996 we've had a slip there send 2000. I see from you profile you live in Manitou. I live in the Springs north of the Citadel Mall.

Have you met Keith Hamburger? He lives around 8th street and Colorado. He trailer sails his C250wb and you can see it stored at boat/RV storage yard on the north side of Hwy 24 between 21st and 26th street. (I think) it is some where in that area.

What is you sail number? I will look for it while out on the water.

Bryan Beamer
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d935b3127cce8ab87c3b48020000000010" border=0>
Daylight Again
C250wk #495
2003 National Champion

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2003 : 00:21:52

Chris,

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> (ask anyone about Eisenhower tunnel in Colorado)
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

That, and the stretch east on I70 between the tunnel and C470 and the west side of Vail Pass. Pretty steep grades! You mentioned you pulled in the snow. Was it on that stretch? Just curious why didn’t you sail at Dillon?

Bryan Beamer
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d935b3127cce8ab87c3b48020000000010" border=0>
Daylight Again
C250wk #495
2003 National Champion

Edited by - on

cch
Navigator

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202 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2003 : 08:00:21

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
You mentioned you pulled in the snow. Was it on that stretch? Just curious why didn’t you sail at Dillon?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Hi Bryan,

We had snow a couple of times on Mounument Hill, and when we moved to Florida we fought snow from Denver to south Georgia.

Dillon is beautiful and was much closer, but we preferred warmer water for swimming and I believe Pueblo is larger?

Mostly why we ended up in northwest Florida. Almost deserted sailing bays and bathtub warm to swim and play in, endless sailing season. And NO Snow.

Chris Hunsicker
Panama City FL
Moonglade
80 C25 #2126 sr/sk
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d636b3127cce8c9d4c83e7890000002010" border=0>

Edited by - on

tzk53s
1st Mate

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USA
33 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2003 : 11:15:10

Like the reply from the gentleman with the Suburban. If you buy the diesel you may not be able to retire for a couple of more years<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> The Catalina25 is an easy task for any V8 light duty truck. The longer the wheelbase the better. Personally I really like the the GM products as they put out more H.P. per cubic inch than other V8's and seem to be the most fuel efficient. Obviously though if you buy the 3/4 ton vehicles the task is easier on the vehicle it is just that this is overkill. You are then stuck with basically a commercial use truck for the rest of your driving. Good Luck!

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2003 : 18:32:28

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I believe Pueblo is larger?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
It is when it has water. Due to the drought we had last year Pueblo is still 55’ below high pool. It is the lowest it has been since I remember going there in the late 80’s. I haven’t seen Dillon this year but I heard it is just as low.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> endless sailing season<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

That is why we sail at Pueblo. It is the biggest lake within a 100 mile drive and we can sail year round.

Bryan Beamer
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d935b3127cce8ab87c3b48020000000010" border=0>
Daylight Again
C250wk #495
2003 National Champion

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2003 : 23:45:57

IMHO the ultimate tow vehicle is the 2003 Dodge Cummins HO with the 6-speed manual transmission, 4X4 and 3.54 Posi rear end. With the 4x4 transfer case you won't need a 4.10 rear end, and the truck will get better fuel economy. BTW, the HO engine and the 6-speed grarbox are 49-state, Not Available In California (rats). Why the Dodge specifically? 1. Since the Cummins is an in-line 6 instead of a V-8 like the Ford and Chevy diesels, it is MUCH easier to work on. The oil and fuel filters are readily accessible, unlike on the V-8 engines. 2. Reliability. The Cummins basic engine block is a 40-year old, proven, bullet-proof design, good for 350,000 miles with reasonable maintenance. The camshaft is driven by a set of gears, not a chain or belt, and those gears reqire no maintenance and no adjustment until the rest of the engine is worn out and in need of a major overhaul. 3. No Glow Plugs. Cold-starts below 32ºF are assisted by a heater grid in the intake manifold. If this fails, it is only one part to replace, instead of 6 or 8 separate glow plugs.
My truck is a '98 Dodge Cummins and in 43,000 miles it has been rock-solid reliable and has made two round-trips from Sacramento to Bellingham, WA pulling the boat, plus several long-distance trips to Utah, Arizona, and Wyoming with a heavy cab-over camper. Pulling the boat it gets 15 mpg, compared to 6 or 7 in the same Dodge truck with a 360 gas engine. I figure that when the truck reaches the 50,000 mile mark, the diesel engine, which was a $4500 option, will have paid for itself in fuel savings. 4. Towing Stability. My truck weighs 5800 pounds empty, so my Catalina 25 has less chance to "push" the truck and make it sway and shimmy on downgrades or during hard braking. And the diesel engine provides far more compression braking effect than a gas engine on those long downgrades, which can help precent overheating the vehicle and trailer brakes.

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25 #1205 "Quiet Time"
Folsom Lake, CA

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2003 : 23:58:02

Larry.. not sure about the engine braking advantage on a diesel... unless you have an added exhaust restrictor or valve lifter they actually have less braking than a gas rig.. there is no butterfly on the intake.. which means that they are a free-running air pump with the throttle off.

That's (one of the reasons) why big rigs have jake brakes.

The newer Fords and Chevy's don't have glo-plugs anymore... they have the heater grid too. Advantage of the newer V-8's is that they are quieter, smoother and more responsive for 'everyday' driving. Almost like driving a gasser. Downside is they aren't the heavy-built Cummins block.

If I was gonna tow 90% of the time, I'd for-sure get the Cummins. If I was gonna tow 10% of the time, I'd probably go for one of the newer engine designs.

Since Lee has talked about being retired and cris-crossing the nation... that's lotsa towing and the Cummins would be an excellent choice.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2003 : 01:21:53

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Larry.. not sure about the engine braking advantage on a diesel... <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

My truck doesn't have the optional exhaust brake kit, yet even without it I am certain the Cummins B360 in my truck has way more compression braking than any gas engine truck or van I have owned in the last 30 years. I have pulled "Quiet Time" over the Siskiyous 4 times, that's 8 miles of 7% downgrade on the Oregon side, and the engine will hold the rig at 30mph, 3rd gear (2500 rpm), with only an occasional light touch on the brakes. If I had the optional exhaust brake, I think I could take those downgrades in 4th gear at 55 mph without needing more than a little wheel braking. Of course the best option would be a "real" big-rig type Jake brake, but I read somewhere that these are mechanically very complex and actually alter the timing of the engine's exhaust valve train, and for that reason are generally not practical on the "small" diesels like mine. If my 360 cubic inch engine is considered to be a "small" diesel, I wonder how many cubic inches are the engines in 18-wheelers? I know they are generally about double the power, 550 bhp more or less, and about triple the torque, around 1200 lb ft at 1400 rpm, but I don't know if that implies double the cubic inches. Hope you have a nice Labor Day weekend, I will be out at Folsom Lake with my sailing club for a two night cruise.

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25 #1205 "Quiet Time"
Folsom Lake, CA

Edited by - lcharlot on 08/29/2003 01:24:54

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2003 : 10:27:54

well, I thought I might as well weigh in on the topic. When I traded up from a C22 to a C25 I had to get a larger tow vehicle. My Chevy S10 blazer did a fine job towing the C22 but would not tow the 25. I was able to buy a low mileage 89 ford F250. It has a very good manual transmission with 10 speeds. 5 ultra low 4wheel dr and 5 highway.
On the ramp the low gears are great. It takes a minute or two to get up to 60 mph, but I would'nt want to go any faster than this anyway.
I travel a bit more than 1000 miles each year on my way to and from my home in Ohio to my home in the North Channel.

I went through this conversation about 2 years ago with these outstanding forum members. I had already selected the boat but had to find a vehicle suitable to tow it home. I thought I would buy the ford as a temporary tow and would sell it when I found something better. It has turned out to be pretty good, and as long as it works I won't try to replace it. I have priced newer vehicles and I really don't have the resources to buy new. If I did I would not be a C25 owner. One of the apeals of the C25 is the quality and economy.
The many C25 cruisers I have met have been people who love to sail and love to cruise and by no means fit the glossy image of the well heeled "yachtsman"

I hope you all have had a great summer. I put over 500 n miles under the keel in five weeks and had a great time. Some of our travels will be chronicled in an upcomming issue of Mainsheet.

John V. Nin Bimash II
77 C25 sk/sr #153

Edited by - on

joe keith
1st Mate

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USA
26 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2003 : 21:40:14

Bryan,

Our sail number is 4833. I should be at the lake next weekend. I'll keep an eye out for Daylight again

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