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Randolph G. Wilson
1st Mate

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USA
64 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/26/2003 : 10:17:27

I am planning to buy a new main for my '83 Catalina. I am considering a Doyle mainsail, priced at approximately $780. I would apppreciate hearing from anyone who has bought a Doyle sail, as to their quality, etc. Also if anyone has a better recommendation I would like to hear. My boat is on Lake Lanier near Atlanta.

Edited by - on

lancej
1st Mate

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81 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2003 : 11:28:03

Doyle has a loft here in Buffalo, and from what I have seen/heard, people are very happy with thier product. I purchased a new main for my C25 a few months ago from Atlantic Sail Traders for around $500, with shipping. They have them in stock as far as I know. It doesn't have a logo (extra $) but it is a very well biult sail, the only thing I would add is a second set of reefing points (comes with only one) and the logo (so people stop asking why I bought a cheap sail.) Can't complain about the sail though, well biult and measured perfectly to spec, was here about 4 days after I ordered it.

Edited by - on

mtiffee
1st Mate

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USA
57 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2003 : 16:01:27

Airforce Sails:
2 reefing points
cunningham
full battens
Coastal Cross-cut Mainsail constructed of Contender Supercruise 5.9 oz Dacron.
$625.00-$695.00 3 year warranty
Great sail, great quality, made here in Charleston at SailNet.
They'll make the roach as large as you want it, even past the backstay for racing.

www.airforcesails.com

Mike

Mike
'89 SR/WK "Freelancer"
#5927

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2003 : 17:38:46

Hey Mike,
Glad to see another 89 WK owner out there. I'm in the process of getting a Schaeffer CF-700 fuler. How do you like Air Force's furling sails?
Do you live in Charlseston?
Thanks

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2003 : 20:25:58

I picked up an Ullman loose footed, full batten main for my '83 fin keel, tall rig from Catalina Direct this June for $739.00 and I'm extremely satisfied with both the construction quality and performance, as well as the service I received from CD. You can check out these sails on the CD site. I was hesitant to go with the loose foot but having done so, I would never do without one again. The shape they built into the sail is excellent and controlling it with the loose foot is a snap. They claimed there is no down side in selecting a loose foot and so far, it looks as though they were right.

Mark, Silver Girl 3744

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matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2003 : 21:46:56

I'd like to second what Mark said. I installed the same Ullman loose footed full batten main this spring and I'd never go back to rope foot. I priced out a Doyle sail also, but they wanted about $400 more than Ullman and didn't offer as many extras. The Ullman was also made with a heavier cloth (6.53 oz). How is your main spec'd out?

John Matsche 1985 TR/FK #5171

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mtiffee
1st Mate

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USA
57 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2003 : 22:07:49

Frank,

I do live in Charleston.. don't have a furler on my boat so can't speak for that.. I'm actually trying to sell my 1989 Catalina WK

http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4366

Mike
'89 SR/WK "Freelancer"
#5927

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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2003 : 05:47:00

My new main was custom made by Banks Sails, near me in Portland, OR. It's 6.5 oz dacron with partial battens, except the top one is full length. I am happy with it and have won some races with it this summer.

It has a bolt rope foot (which I like), but only a single set of reef points. I have another, older, double reefed main for cruising.

This one was a winter "Boat Show Special" and was only $605. The local loft gives WONDERFUL, fast service on repairs, etc. if you buy new from them. I am happy with this choice.

Gary B.
Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2003 : 08:54:19

Doyle is at the higher end of the spectrum for sails. Although I have never purchased one, I have taken a sail or two for repairs to the Doyle loft here in Cleveland. A few of my neighbors have Sails from them and have never had problems with service or quality.

Although many members have shown you lower prices in this thread, the price you quoted seems extremely reasonable for a Doyle main. (assuming that includes all of the extras)

DW

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/images/layout/category_images/t_3964.jpg" border=0>

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MikeM
1st Mate

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72 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2003 : 10:14:44

I would consider Cruising Direct, which is really North sails. I purchased a main this year for $519, 6oz Dacron with one reefing point. Good deal.

So far no compliants other than the factory shipped me the Catalina 22 logo (which is extra) by mistake. Easy remedy, Cat25 logo was was sent via overnight mail.

Mike M
Marblehead, MA
C25 #1212

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2003 : 22:39:33

I just bought an 82'sr/sk, it has original everything and nothing has been added to this boat. The oxidation is so bad that I didn't know it was tan insead of white until I scrubbed it. Anyway, I need new sails. I have checked the places mentioned in the thread so far and a place called Nationalsails. I also got a quote from Shurr for around 800 and from UK for 1000 (1500 in mylar tape drive). PYACHT has generic UK sails for 700. Is anyone buying the more expensive sails? Are they worth it? I used to race a Merit 25 a dozen years ago and am just now getting back into sailing. I would like a sail with toys to play with but one I can let my grandkids lay in the shelf foot of without my having a heart attack. My specs to the sailmakers: Full batten, cuningham, single reef, shelf foot, view window, flattening reef, leech string, 6.5 oz dac.
Are there any other toys on sails these days? Like I said I have been out of sailing for 12 years.

Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2003 : 00:22:24

Frank and Martha,

Welcome aboard!...You have made a wise choice with the C25.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Are there any other toys on sails these days?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

It appears that you have mentioned most of the toys, but the current trend in mainsails is the loose-footed main. The loose-footed main, with it's foot being attached to the boom only at the tack and clew, is purported to have a greater degree of adjustability in sail shape over that of a bolt roped or slug footed main, but it may be difficult for the grandkids to use it as a hammock. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Again, welcome aboard .

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2003 : 00:31:45

I agree completely with Don. If I were in the market for a new mainsail for "Wood Duck" (#2616), I would get her a loose-footed main with two reefing points. In stronger breezes, even the standard rig benefits from a second set of reef points. The loose-footed main took me a while to get used to visually, but I am now totally convinced. When sailing to weather, it flattens out better, and it is a more forgiving sail in general.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2003 : 22:36:07

I re-speced my quote requests to Doyle and UK for a loose foot. The UK Chicago loft was disconcerted when they heard that PYACHTS was selling generic UK sales from the Annapolis loft for 50 cents on the dollar. Has anyone tried one of those "PC Sails" as they are called? You order by measurement with no specific boat considered. It seems like the draft pocket could be anywhere or any size!
Where is it that you guys sail that you need two reefs? It blows like stink with blasters on top of that here in Kansas. We either sail with a reef or motor into the slips and wait the 30 minutes it takes for a serious blow to pass. You see, we are never more than 8 miles from our slip.

Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2003 : 09:31:04

Frank and Martha,

The loose-footed mainsail is currently popular, but I use a shelf-footed mainsail, and have raced against boats with loose-footed mainsails, and have no reason to believe that the loose-footed main is faster or more adjustable than the shelf-footed mainsail. Currently popular theory is that the end plate effect disturbs the airflow as the wind moves along the shelf foot, and that the loose-footed mainsail eliminates the end plate effect. While that may be true, that doesn’t necessarily mean that the shelf-foot is slower overall, on every point of sail. I have noticed that some of the recent America’s Cup yachts still used shelf-footed mainsails, and they can afford to use any kind of sails they want.

I love the shelf-footed mainsail. When beating to windward in light to medium air, I ease the outhaul and give the mainsail a very deep shape that generates a lot of power. As the wind increases, I first flatten the foot with the outhaul, then use the flattening reef when I need to really depower the sail. Often, the short flattening reef reduces the mainsail area enough to keep the boat on her feet. Other boats, that have no flattening reef, either have to choose between tucking in a full reef or sailing overpowered with the full mainsail flying. They have no in-between position.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2003 : 13:34:43

Thanks Steve. I remember my flattening reef to be a powerful tuning adjustment on my other boats. In the years I sailed (through the 80s and early 90s) I only reefed a handful of times. I always handled the air with sail trim and the flattening reef. I am launching my '82 for the first time this week end. I will know far more about my need for new cloth by Sunday night. I have never even sailed on a Cat 25 much less helmed one. Who knows maybe the original sails only need a little spray starch!

Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

seads
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2003 : 23:19:17

Regarding sails in general and mains in particular, I want to give a plug to Gary Swenson and his operation at Ullman Ventura. I recently ordered a mainsail from them for my boat. I made a mistake in my order and wanted to make a change at the last second just before the sail was to be shipped. They had already put the numbers on the sail I ordered but Gary made the change without batting an eyelash and shipped the new order immediately.

There is enough lousy service out there that I just thought this deserved a mention. I would certainly order from them again based on this experience alone.

Stewart Eads
"Osprey" 1982 FK/TR #3408
Charleston Harbor, SC

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2003 : 08:04:14

[quote]
Regarding sails in general and mains in particular, I want to give a plug to Gary Swenson and his operation at Ullman Ventura. I recently ordered a mainsail from them for my boat. I made a mistake in my order and wanted to make a change at the last second just before the sail was to be shipped. They had already put the numbers on the sail I ordered but Gary made the change without batting an eyelash and shipped the new order immediately.

So what change did you order? I ordered from him yesterday. He called me regarding some questions I had asked on his web site. I was concerned that full batens sails were not "tunable". He is a great guy and I feel very good about the order, even though it is not from one of the $1000 and up lofts.

Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

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seads
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2003 : 17:46:31

OK, OK I'll tell you what I changed. I was reading the thread on 'How to tell SR vs. TR Cat 25s' and it suddenly became apparent that my boat, which I was told by the listing broker was a SR, might actually be a TR! A few measurements proved this to be the case.

A quick call to Ullman sails and all was made right, as I said.

Stewart Eads
"Osprey" 1982 FK/TR #3408
Charleston Harbor, SC

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2003 : 09:58:59

OK, OK I'll tell you what I changed. I was reading the thread on 'How to tell SR vs. TR Cat 25s' and it suddenly became apparent that my boat, which I was told by the listing broker was a SR, might actually be a TR! A few measurements proved this to be the case. - Stewart

Oh oh! Stewart ... I haven't taken the 155 genoa I bought from you to my boat, much less tried it out ... I have a standard rig <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

Does anyone know if I'm going to be able to use a 155 designed for a tall rig on my standard rig? I looked at the sail specs in the C-25 manual, and my biggest concern is that the luff for a TR is about a foot longer than that of a SR ... <img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>

Buzz Maring
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>
~~Freya~~
C-25 SK/SR #68

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seads
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2003 : 17:02:37

Buzz: I sent you an e-mail but I'll post here too just in case. Don't worry about the sail. If you want to send it back to us we'll give you a refund (less, of course a 50% restocking fee<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>). Just kidding. We'll just remarket it as a tall rig. Boy do I feel dumb. Live and learn.

Stewart Eads
"Osprey" 1982 FK/TR #3408
Charleston Harbor, SC

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2003 : 17:16:48

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Does anyone know if I'm going to be able to use a 155 designed for a tall rig on my standard rig?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
I can't imagine it working, Buzz... The mast is 2' taller, so the forestay is more than 2' longer and slightly more vertical.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - dave bristle on 09/12/2003 17:17:55

Edited by - on

seads
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2003 : 20:39:09

A followup message...I received my Ullman-Ventura mainsail this week and tried it out today. VERY NICE! I highly recommend this option to anyone looking for a new main.

Oh yeah, I also learned a good lesson about the difference between TR and SR boom height, as evidenced by the laceration on the back of my head!

Stewart Eads
"Osprey" 1982 FK/TR #3408
Charleston Harbor, SC

Edited by - seads on 09/20/2003 20:41:10

Edited by - seads on 09/23/2003 11:46:27

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2003 : 20:58:43

SIT, Stewart, SIT! <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2003 : 22:29:56

Stewart, I sailed with my new Ullman main for the first time Friday and I was very pleased with it as well.
<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/mdmnewmain.jpg" border=0> I have heard the jacklines let you flake the sail into itself, tried it and it sorta worked. I think there is a viable trick there, well, viable when I get it figured out. I am also pleased with the sail cover from CD, at $225 it was a significant percentage of the main's price but it is a nice product. The Ullman sail ties look nice around it.

Anyone spot the rooky mistake, God I hope you only see the one that is driving me nuts.

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - fhopper@mac.com on 09/21/2003 11:57:01

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2003 : 12:08:42

"Anyone spot the rooky mistake"

Heh heh... I guess you spend a lot of time sailing backwards?
Are you catching a lot of guff around the marina over that?

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

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