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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

When to reduce sail area

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Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/10/2003 : 11:06:14

Does anybody have a rule of thumb on wind strength and sail reduction? I was out yesterday in maybe 10-12 knots. In gusts we heeled over and there was a lot of weather helm (full main, 150 jib). Any more, and I would have reefed the main and kept the 150.

I've got a new low-tech weather instrument, so what I'm looking for is some kind of rule I can use when I get out on the river and decide on which jib to use and whether or not to put the main up all the way. In summer on the Potomac, it's a no brainer: use maximum sail area. As fall approaches with higher wind speeds, there are other options to consider.

Bruce Baker
Falls Church, VA
"Yee Ha" 3573
'83SR/SK

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svmoxie
Past Commodore

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USA
331 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2003 : 11:45:43

Bruce,

I use the amount of weather helm I have on the tiller as my guide. If I am "working" tiller or if the autohelm is frequently alarming I ease the traveler and flatten the main, then reef the main and then furl some of the jib as needed to ease the helm. I find my speed is always just as fast sailing a bit flatter with less sail then when I am hiked out on the coaming doing bicep curls with the tiller. Of course sometimes it is fun to bury the rail and shift everything in the boat to the cabin sole!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Clif Thompson
Treasurer C-25/250 National Association.
svMoxie '81 25 sk

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Steve Kostanich
1st Mate

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88 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2003 : 11:47:16

Bruce,
When I'm out just day sailing or for a relaxing sail, and if there is the slightest hint a of a white cap showing on the water surface, I go with the working jib. Racing I would go with the 150%. Currently I try to make sailing the least amount of work possible. If the wind pipes up more I reef the main. In winds over 12mph the performance difference between a working jib and a genoa is pretty small, but the comfort and handling difference is significant.

Steve Kostanich C-25 Equinox 1119 sr/sk moored Oly., WA.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2003 : 14:45:25

Toward the extreme end of the spectrum, when we daysail on a gusty Fall day with friends who aren't really into 20-degree sailing, we often just pull out the 130 and leave the main on the boom. I detect a little more leeway, she doesn't point quite as high, and the helm is neutral to lee, but she moves along nicely and is barely phased by the gusts that churn the water to white-on-black. By comparison, she's a dog under main alone. The best thing about the genny is how it rolls up under way--push the button and pull the string, and we've switched from sail to power without even interrupting the conversation. We don't win many "races" (you know the kind), but we have an automatic excuse. ("Hey, if I pulled the main up, he'd be toast!")

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2003 : 20:02:02

How much sail you carry also depends on your heading. I often carry full sail and a 135 genny in 20 to 25 knots of wind when I am on a beam or broad reach, but the minute I need to go to weather, I throw a reef into the main and reduce the genny until the boat balances nicely on the tiller. On the other hand, when I have inexperienced crew aboard, I try to make it comfortable for them, and would likely reduce sail before leaving harbor.

Dave on "Wood Duck" (#2616)

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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2003 : 22:40:04

12 Kts is just a nice breez. If your considering a reef here I would be more concerned about learning about my sails and how to use them. Its OK if you want to reef but if you learn more about how to work your sails you will have more fun. Tall rig reef (1) at 15 Kts. Reef 2 at 20 with smaller head sail 110 or even a 90. Standard rig can take a little higher winds. http://www.neilprydesails.com/manual/trim.htm
http://www.arklowsc.ie/Sailing_Tips/genoa_sail_trimming.htm
http://fp.homeina.f9.co.uk/Sailing/howto_trimming1.htm

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2003 : 13:53:30

Bruce,

If you use specific windspeeds to decide when to reduce sail area, then you have to remember that you tuck in the first reef at 12 kts, and then you reduce the 150 to the 110 at 15-20 kts, and then you tuck in the second reef at a certain higher windspeed, and you reduce the 110 to the storm jib at a still higher windspeed. It seems to me that, except for the most methodical racers, that is much more complicated than it needs to be. Moreover, most of us don’t have wind instruments on our C-25s and C-250s, so we would have to guess at the windspeed.

The easiest rule of thumb is that you should reduce your sail area whenever the boat is laboring, i.e., when it is heeling excessively and has too much tiller pressure. When that happens, your first action should be to tuck in the first reef in the mainsail. If you have tucked in the first reef, and the wind increases further, and the boat starts to labor again, then you should reduce the size of the jib. If the wind increases still further and the boat starts to labor again, you should tuck in the second reef in the mainsail. If the wind increases further and the boat starts to labor again, you should reduce the size of the jib again.

In short, as the windstrength increases, you should alternately reduce the size of the mainsail and the jib, starting first with the mainsail. When the boat begins to labor, that is your cue as to when it is time to take each step. In a sense, you are letting the boat tell you when it is time to reef.

If the standard that you use to decide when to reef is based on when the boat is laboring, that standard works for C-25 tall and standard rigs, and for Tartan-34s and for Island Packet 42s and for every other type of monohull sailboat, and it works no matter what size sails you are flying at the moment.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2003 : 16:05:05

Be sure to watch our for lee helm if you start carrying lots of headsail without much main. If the rudder gets too light, reduce the headsail too.

Weather helm will eventually stall the rudder and head you up (flogging sails)... but lee helm will round the boat down and cause a 'crash' which is real bad karma.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2003 : 18:48:25

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>some kind of rule I can use<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

With respect to the main (the first to get reefed), I try to use the "when I think of it" rule. I don't know who came up with it, but I am amazed at how often it works.

When heading out (usually on a close reach), the wind often seems to increase as the day progresses. The "when I think of it" moment usually hits when I start noticing the increase in wind speed, but a little before I actually need it (i.e. a bit before the boat starts laboring, as Steve describes very well). Logic tells me I don't need to reef the main yet, but I try to ignore logic and reef anyway. Then I sit back and relax. Then a half hour later, I notice the wind has picked up a bit more and am glad I reefed earlier (when it was easier to reef). It's easy to take the reef out if for some reason the wind decreases, but this doesn't seem to happen often.

While this approach may not be appropriate for racers, it seems to work for me.

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

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