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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Standard Versus Split Backstay

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cch
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202 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/19/2003 : 00:58:34

Thanks to everyone for their input on standing rigging. After studying this forum, reading some books and catalogs I am starting to understand a little about standing rigging.

I now realize I need to replace my rigging. I am trying to decide whether or not to spend the time and money to invest in an adjustable split backstay. Having never sailed a boat with an adjustable backstay I am ignorant of the advatanges. Controlling weather helm seems to be a major consideration.

The only real difficulty or concern (other than expense)is installing an additional chain plate for the split backstay. I could use some help understanding the benefits of the split backstay to determine if this project should happen now or perhaps next rigging change.

Chris Hunsicker
Panama City FL
Moonglade
80 C25 #2126 sr/sk
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d636b3127cce8c9d4c83e7890000002010" border=0>

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2003 : 10:04:18

Chris,

The split backstay allows you to bend the mast, which depowers the mainsail by flattening it and pulling the draft of the mainsail forward. That reduces heeling and reduces weather helm. The split backstay also allows you to have two adjustments for the headstay. The headstay can be pulled very tight for beating to windward, and it can be made very loose for sailing off the wind.

That sounds terrific, but in reality, I raced successfully for many years without using a split backstay. If you don’t have one, there are other ways of flattening the mainsail and moving the draft forward (e.g., by using a cunningham, and by putting more tension on the outhaul.) . You can’t change the tension of the headstay on the fly, but you can tighten or ease the tension on the jib halyard, which has the same effect. If I didn’t already have an adjustable backstay, I wouldn’t go to the expense and do the work involved in converting to an adjustable backstay. If you are super-serious about racing, it’s a good thing to have, but you can win plenty of local club races and club championships without one.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

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cch
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202 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2003 : 12:22:10

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
If you don’t have one, there are other ways of flattening the mainsail and moving the draft forward (e.g., by using a cunningham, and by putting more tension on the outhaul.)
Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Steve,

Will these techniques also reduce weather helm?

Thanks

Chris Hunsicker
Panama City FL
Moonglade
80 C25 #2126 sr/sk
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d636b3127cce8c9d4c83e7890000002010" border=0>

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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2003 : 14:01:23

Do you race = Do it now
If you dont race ? You can always convert after you have learned more about sail handling. If you just enjoy sailing on weekends and have a tight budget leave it for latter.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2003 : 14:38:30

I disagree with Douglass; In my opinion racing does not equate to "Do it now". If it takes an adjustable backstay to get the competitive edge in a Catalina 25, then the fleet your sailing in would have names like Jobson, Whidden, Connors, North and Crawford.

Adjustable back stays are nice to have, however the mast rake that you will get on our boats is rather minimal, even with the split adjustable. From what I understand, the installation of the additional tang and or chainplate although feasible, is a pain. Since you are already getting riggin, and the cost isn't a factor, I would say do it. If you don't mind doing the work and taking the time to install the tang and are comfortable with cutting and drilling your boat....I would also go ahead and get one.

However, if its just weather helm you are concerned with, I would try and work with all the other adjustments first. Since you are purchasing new rigging anyway, keep in mind that the switch from single do a split adjustable, or a single adjustable backstay is minimal and incremental cost. They just have to cut and re-swedge the wire. The tang still needs to be installed, but its not as though they have to completely cut a new piece of cable from masthead. You can always choose to make the transition a year down the road if other sail adjustments don't offer the changes you require.

dw

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/images/layout/category_images/t_3964.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2003 : 14:45:08

Why not simply have the single backstay cut short with an eye swaged on the end. Have a "safety section made that is several inches too long for the rest of the distance from the short backstay and the transom fitting. Use a purchase to connect from the same transom fitting to the end of the short backstay. Simply use the purchase to tension the stay. You could easily rig 12;1 with bullet blocks and it would still be a small rig. I hope I made sense.

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - fhopper@mac.com on 09/19/2003 14:47:03

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2003 : 14:54:53

That would probably work to some degree Frank, however the side purchase point of the C-25 it's going to put some unwanted twist in the mast as you begin to tighten the stay. I have seen this occur with a spin up while running down in 15 kts of wind.

By splitting the backstay you get a more even fore-aft purchase point keeping things in line.

dw

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/images/layout/category_images/t_3964.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - Duane Wolff on 09/19/2003 16:02:26

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2003 : 15:01:30

Just showing my ignorance, I did not think about the transom fitting being off center. Sound like going to the real deal or leaving it alone is the best idea.

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2003 : 16:49:17

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Will these techniques also reduce weather helm?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Yes. Those techniques will reduce weather helm. It is fairly common for C-25s to have excessive weather helm, but that is mostly because the mast is not properly tuned. You can reduce weather helm by tilting the whole mast forward slightly. There's no set amount. You have to adjust it, and then sail the boat to see how it is balanced. Just be sure that you don't adjust out all the weather helm. You want a little, but not very much.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2003 : 00:28:00

Hey it makes a great place to store your crab ring !

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.