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catalina cockpit delamination

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tarbaj
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/23/2003 : 15:12:35

The cockpit floor in my 87' Catalina 25 is in need of a rebuild as a result of delamination. The floor deflects alot when you walk on it and it sounds hollow when you tap on it. Can anyone give me an idea how much this should cost to have professionaly repaired? I've done some research and the materials for a balsam or plywood floorboard replace should run about $200. How many hours of labor are involved and whats a typical hourly rate?
Thanks!!

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2003 : 15:59:59

tarbaj,

I'm sorry I can't answer the specific questions you ask, but I do have a little information on the subject that you or someone else might find helpful.

A friend with a C-22 recently told me he replaced the plywood in the foredeck of his boat. The interesting thing is that he replaced it from <u>inside</u> the boat, by cutting the inner hull liner. As a result, the repair is not externally visible.

I have heard of people who replaced the cockpit floor in the C-25 by cutting through the external floor surface, replaced the wood and then replaced and patched the external floor surface. If you can cut the inner liner, under the cockpit, and replace the wood from underneath, it seems to me that it would make a much less noticeable repair. I don't know if I'll see him again before the end of the sailing season, but if so, I'll ask for more specifics about how he did it.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

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tarbaj
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2003 : 17:22:53

Thanks for the info Steve!
I found the attached link describing the process of making the cockpit floor repair from inside the cabin
http://dan.pfeiffer.net/p26/cfloor.htm
I really don't want to get into it myself but was wondering if anyone else had their's replaced and what I should expect to pay for labor. My research shows it should take about $200 for materials and about 16 hours work.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2003 : 17:46:00

The 16 hours sounds a little light to me, but I'm no fiberglass pro...

One key element is also fixing whatever caused the problem--some source of water getting into the plywood core. It could be scuppers, cracks, a leak around the companionway threshold, the traveler, a sternrail stanchion, or something else--that should become more apparent when it's opened up and you can see where the rot apparently started.

Good luck!

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2003 : 23:02:06

How about epoxy injection ? It involves drilling small holes into the failed core and saturating/filling it with a thin epoxy like the West System product.

Fair the holes back in and refinish.
Should last a hunnert years or so.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

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tarbaj
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2003 : 13:45:09

That sounds perfect ClamBeach! The gelcoat/fiberglass above and below the wood core are in perfect shape. Is the "West System" product something found on this webpage?

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2003 : 14:33:09

Jason: There's a little more to it... That technique generally requires drilling a matrix of holes from the inside, and allowing the core to dry for a long time, like a couple of months, often aided by a heat source inside. Then the inside holes are filled, and a similar matrix is drilled from above (the cockpit) for injecting the "penetrating epoxy."

Don't go by my instructions--I've seen writeups on this in various books, and possibly the pamphlets from West System. The delamination you described may be beyond this treatment--especially since it's under such a high-traffic, high load (nothing personal) area.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - dave bristle on 09/25/2003 14:37:58

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2003 : 23:29:48

Yes, I didn't mean to imply that epoxy injection was the answer to your delamination problem. You do need to check things out a bit.

Dry delamination can be due to improper layup at the factory... and not from water making its way into the core. It can usually be repaired by injection. Hopefully, this is the kind of delamination you have.

Wet delamination (water rot) can't be repaired by injection if there is anything more than 'trace' amounts of moisture present in the core.
This is the kind that takes lots of drying time.. and if damage is severe, the 'cut out' method.

A good (and easy) first step would be making some strategic test drills from the inside of the sole... just a bit into the core to see if you have moisture in there.

The West System site http://www.westsystem.com/
has lots of good information.

Here's some other links of interest:
http://www.rotdoctor.com/glass/GLintro.html
http://www.laserforum.org/forum/showthread/t-764.html
http://www.alberg30.org/pipermail/public-list/2002-February/002783.html
http://www.catsail.com/archives/v3-i4/feature1.htm

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2003 : 23:21:58

Hi, I have done the repair and can give you a run down on how to do it.
I cut the delaminated outer layer using a dremel cutting tool. The wood core was very wet and needed to dry out. it was not rotted. I drilled a number of half inch holes in the wood, but not through the lower layer. I used a wet vac to suck out as much water as I could. fortunately we had a very dry and hot june in 2002 so after a week in the sun the cockpit floor was dry. I made a clamping plug out of plywood the exact shape of the cockpit floor. I placed the glass back in place and laid the clamping plug on top of it. we drilled 20 1/4 in holes and got ready to epoxy the thing. the order of replacement goes like this: first the thickened epoxy, then the floor that had been cut out, after that poly propylene sheeting to keep the oozing epoxy from sticking to the clamping board. The clamping board was last and then my helper started pounding the 1/4 in carriage bolts through from below. the bolts were in rows of 3 each would get a large washer and a nut tightening each.

after 24 hours the whole mess is taken apart. after sanding out the bumps a layer of thickened epoxy filled the clamping holes. when these were sanded out a layer of epoxy and fiberglass formed the new cockpit floor. an additional layer of epoxy finished the job and the floor recieved a finish of white epoxy paint. the cosmetics of the repair were not so pretty so we made a varnished oak floor board on top of the repaired cockpit floor. this can be lifted to facilitate cleaning of the cockpit floor.

It is a pretty good solution and looks very good. the ideal final version would have a cris-crossed marine style floor.

I hope this helps.

John V. Nin Bimash II
77 C25 sk/sr #153

Edited by - John V. on 09/28/2003 23:26:31

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