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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Worn Gudgons

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SeabirdSkipper
Deckhand

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12 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/23/2003 : 22:33:55

I read in another topic about some causes of a pulsing rudder. Is that the same as the tiller jumping in my hand? If that's potentially caused by worn gudgons, what's the best way to inspect them (the rudder is almost bigger than me, so I'm looking for some creative ideas that might not actually include pulling it upover the stern!) and what I should be looking for? If I need to replace the gudgons, can this be done with the boat in the water?

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2003 : 22:52:21

Hi Kelly...

You can test for wear by trying to move the rudder side-to-side while at rest, listening for sounds of pintles hitting gudgeons. The lower one is usually most suspect. I'll offer the theory, however, that much of the pulsating comes from turbulence off the keel and the bottom running into the sharp leading edge of the original-design rudder. When I put on the new, balanced rudder, 80% of the pulsing disappeared--I believe because the new design has a rounded leading edge, like an airplane wing. My new lower gudgeon may have reduced another 10%... That's to say I can still feel just a hint of pulsing at higher speeds.

Some people have inserted nylon bushings (from a hardware store) into the gudgeons--that might require some drilling. You can probably replace a gudgeon in the water, although you might as well order several so you can finish the job after sacrificing at least one to King Neptune.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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SeabirdSkipper
Deckhand

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12 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2003 : 23:01:05

Thanks Dave. Good thoughts -- especially the suggestion to purchase spares! Will let you know how that goes!

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jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2003 : 13:50:37

Seabird,

Some thoughts on gudgeons. As posted often, they can be a nuisance or dangerous.

First about wear. Over time, the pintles and gudgeons will wear and get sloppy. The easiest fix IMHO is to remove the gudgeons and have bushings installed in them. The bushings are longer than the existing surface, so the wear in the pintles will not continue to cause slop. I had a local machinist drill the holes out and install sintered bronze bushings (like are used for valve guides in engines). They look like an upside down top hat once installed. He claims they will outlast the pintles if I oil them now and then.

Do you tie your tiller down when you leave? The tiller will flop because of currents and contribute to the wear.

About safety. The gudgeons on most 25's are held in place by screws! (Butler blew it on this detail) These screw into a bronze plate fiberglassed onto the inside of the hull. When my lower gudgeon loosened, dropped two of the three screws, and I was in the middle of SF Bay, it got my attention. Once they get loose, they tend to work and strip the threads. I found that two of the screws of the upper gudgeon were stripped also. Yikes! I was lucky.

You need to thru-bolt these critical components. This requires making a hole in the aft bulkhead, to give access to the upper gudgeon screws. You make a tidy cover using a 4" Beckson Screw-In Deck Plate, West Marine $11. Drill thru the bronze holes. You can use machine screws with nuts (I used nylon-lock SS nuts), a SS backer plate or large SS fender washers. Thru bolt the lowers with backers too.

Be safe.

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
Half Moon Bay, CA

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Charlie Vick
Captain

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USA
423 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2003 : 14:35:46

I started a thread on this a while back and got a lot of good ideas on how to relace my gudgeons and found out it wasn't near the trouble I thought it would be. I ended up drilling though the hull and the brass plate in the original holes and used mounting hardware from CD specifically made for mounting the new gudgeon, which I should add is a lot better made than the original. I did use larger fender washers than what came with the kit. You need to be sure to seal it off in some manner though to keep any water from seeping into the hull
even though its above the water line.
If you have to do this by yourself its a good idea to tape the gudgeon off and the heads of the screws to hold them to the hull while you go back in and tighten them up.
I haven't done the top one yet because the slop in it is minimal but you won't believe the difference it makes if your rudder had a lot of slop before.

CVick
PanaceaII '81 C25 #2439 SRSK
Fort Smith,AR

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Charlie Vick
Captain

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USA
423 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2003 : 14:46:11

And by the way I did it in the water.

CVick
PanaceaII '81 C25 #2439 SRSK
Fort Smith,AR

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2003 : 17:39:53

In installed the new Catlina Direct Gudgeons. Great Product. Of course I had to add a Beckson waterproof round cover in the transom for the upper one.
I drilled out the gudgeons and used 5/16" machine bolts. That way you can clamp on a Vise Grip on the outside while you tighten up on the inside

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2003 : 17:41:39

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jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 12:33:14

Charlie,

Old Son, I think you will notice that when under power or with a crew in the cockpit at many points of sail, the lower gudgeons are indeed submerged. Does't change your advice, goop the lowers and keep out the wet.

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
Half Moon Bay, CA

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George Beck
1st Mate

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USA
48 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 19:46:22

If you have an ACE Hardward store in your area they have a bronz shim that is like the inverted top hat mentioned and will fit on the shaft of the pintle perfectly. I used a heavy duty hand drill to enlarge the gudgeons to acomadate the shim. They are now snug as new and very economical. The most cost was for the drill bit which I think was 1/2 in. Try it, you'll like it.

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.