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Anchor Bow Roller

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cch
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202 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/24/2003 : 08:24:03

Has anyone installed the replacement/upgrade bow roller Catalina Direct offers?

It looks pretty nice, but I wonder about getting the old bracket off, as the bolt on my boat is under the rub rail. My forestay bracket is sound and secure so I am thinking I may be better off mounting a bow roller parallel to the existing bracket. I would appreciate any thoughts and experiences.

My boat is still out of the water and I hope our new wing keel is here soon. Catalina Direct says it has shipped, about twice the wait that was indicated when we ordered. The good side is, I have alot projects to keep me busy with the boat being on the trailer. Maybe the next one is a bow roller?

Chris Hunsicker
Panama City FL
Moonglade
80 C25 #2126 sr/sk
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d636b3127cce8c9d4c83e7890000002010" border=0>

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2003 : 12:05:13

Hi Chris,

I installed the CD retrofit stem fitting and bow roller this summer. Getting the old stem fitting off wasn't too hard. Antares had a gap between the rub rail and bolt that allowed, with some jockeying and chipping out of MarineTek, the extraction of the bolt you mentioned.

Putting the new stem fitting on was the big problem. First, the tang on the new stem fitting was angled differently than the original; too obtuse. So, I had to bend it...hard work and a busted 5/8" ratchet cum sledgehammer, which I still need to see if Craftsman will replace. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Second, the tang, now bent to fit the bow, had become to acute to easily make the bend through the rub rail. Again, bang, bang, bang, and I eventually got it forced into place.

Now that the pain and frustration have receded, I'm very happy with the modification. <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

J.B. Manley
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d609b3127cce8d2e212441c60000008010" border=0>
Antares '85 FK/SR #4849
36°29'58" -94°59'59"

Edited by - on

cch
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202 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2003 : 15:09:43

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Now that the pain and frustration have receded, I'm very happy with the modification. <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

J.B.

I have been reluctant to proceed with this modification due to the potential of what you experienced. Really appreciate the input. I may opt for an anchor roller independent of the forestay bracket.

Chris Hunsicker
Panama City FL
Moonglade
80 C25 #2126 sr/sk
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d636b3127cce8c9d4c83e7890000002010" border=0>

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2003 : 15:36:00

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
...I may opt for an anchor roller independent of the forestay bracket.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
If your stem fitting has the tang that goes under the rail and bolts to the bow below the rail, I'd just add a roller along side. If you don't have the bow tang, the CD upgrade is a good idea. Catalina switched to the bow tang (without the roller) at some point (including on our boat).

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - dave bristle on 09/24/2003 15:36:56

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2003 : 19:53:41

Chris,

Re: "Has anyone installed the replacement/upgrade bow roller...?"

Yes I have. First, I agree with Dave Bristle that if you don't have the chainplate extending down the stem, then you need to replace your bow fitting.

I ran into the same challenges with the rubrail interference and chainplate angle that J.B. Manley mentioned. My solution was to cut out a notch in the aluminum rubrail the width of the new chainplate. Luckily the cut ends didn't spring away from the hull. If they had (or ever do) I would fasten them back in place with large self-tapping SS screws.

I'm very pleased with the roller stem fitting. It's a well though out and beautifully built assembly at an amazingly inexpensive price. I keep a 22# Claw anchor on it. I drilled a small hole through the anchor shank to accomodate the lock pin that comes with the stem fitting.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

cch
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202 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2003 : 22:00:29

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
My solution was to cut out a notch in the aluminum rubrail the width of the new chainplate.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Hi Leon,

Do you mean that you cut and removed the entire rub rail wide enough for the chainplate to fit into?

Chris Hunsicker
Panama City FL
Moonglade
80 C25 #2126 sr/sk
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d636b3127cce8c9d4c83e7890000002010" border=0>

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2003 : 23:37:16

Chris,

Re: "Do you mean that you cut and removed the entire rub rail wide enough for the chainplate to fit into?" Yes, I think that's what I meant. <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

I traced the part of the new stem fitting (the chainplate) that must pass behind the aluminum rub rail, onto the front that rub rail. I then made two vertical cuts entirely through the rub rail on those lines, and removed a piece of the aluminum rub rail the same width as the (sort of) vertical part of the new bow fitting.

That's all probably as clear as mud at this point. Feel free to e-mail me for more details if you want to, or call (321)784-8406.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2003 : 05:36:01

does anyone have a picture of the completed job?

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2003 : 09:57:40

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
does anyone have a picture of the completed job?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I don't currently, but could post one a week from this Monday if you would like.

J.B. Manley
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d609b3127cce8d2e212441c60000008010" border=0>
Antares '85 FK/SR #4849
36°29'58" -94°59'59"

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2003 : 13:04:03

These are not my pictures, As I recall the poster said they drilled out the bolts behind the rubrail and slid the bracket in without cutting it.
<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/Bow1.jpg" border=0>
<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/Bow3.jpg" border=0>
<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/Bow7.jpg" border=0>
The thing I find odd is the plate on top of the lower stem plate in the last picture. You can see it coming over the front making a tiny sprit. S'up wid dat?

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2003 : 13:11:23

As an easier alternative to replacing the whole stem fitting which to me seemed adequate, I installed a Windline AR-2 right next to and slightly off-parallel to the original stem fitting ([url="http://outfittersparadise.com/w/Windline/Windline_Anchor_Roller_AR_2_Short_656490.htm"]AR-2 ancor roller[/url]).

I've been anchoring more lately, and it makes it much easier bringing in my main anchor (13# danforth, 50' chain and 300' nylon rode). My technique now is to sit on the deck with my feet in the chain locker. This is pretty stable on a pitching deck and I save my back and arms by relying more on my stronger butt and leg muscles, kind of like rowing a boat.

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cf39b3127cce92448c0b84670000001010" border=0>

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2003 : 13:17:45

Dave made the comment that if your stem fitting is the old one that does not wrap down the front of the bow that it should be replaced. The one in this picture did wrap down but mine does not. I bought one of these and I will replace the old one with it this winter.

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - fhopper@mac.com on 09/25/2003 13:18:53

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2003 : 14:13:01

Frank,
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
These are not my pictures, As I recall the poster said they drilled out the bolts behind the rubrail and slid the bracket in without cutting it.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
[url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=928"]John Mason's retrofit[/url]
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>The thing I find odd is the plate on top of the lower stem plate in the last picture. You can see it coming over the front making a tiny sprit. S'up wid dat?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Spinnaker tack pennant bale.

J.B. Manley
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d609b3127cce8d2e212441c60000008010" border=0>
Antares '85 FK/SR #4849
36°29'58" -94°59'59"

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2003 : 14:36:54

[url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=928"]John Mason's retrofit[/url]
Spinnaker tack pennant bale.

J.B. Manley
[/quote]

Thanks, I have grabbed so many pictures off of this forum that I have not taken the time to attribute them in any way. I wonder how his spinnaker tack is working for him.

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - fhopper@mac.com on 09/25/2003 14:38:21

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2003 : 15:18:26

I endorse Richard G's pose wholeheartedly. I have the Windline AR-2 mounted alongside the stem fitting at an angle. It takes my 14lb Delta and works perfectly. Total cost from West Marine with my Power Squadron discount: $185. Some of the best bu's I have spent on "Wood Duck"

Dave on "Wood Duck" (#2616 - SR, FK)

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2003 : 15:23:41

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I endorse Richard G's pose wholeheartedly. I have the Windline AR-2 mounted alongside the stem fitting at an angle. It takes my 14lb Delta and works perfectly. Total cost from West Marine with my Power Squadron discount: $185. Some of the best bu's I have spent on "Wood Duck"

Dave on "Wood Duck" (#2616 - SR, FK)
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Thats $80 more than the CD unit.

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

cch
Navigator

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202 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2003 : 00:01:37

I appreciate all the input. Thanks for finding the pictures Frank. I ordered the parts from Catalina Direct today. One of these days all these parts (wing keel, standing rigging, and now anchor bow roller) will arrive then I will really be busy. I will take pictures and post my experiences.

Thanks,

Chris Hunsicker
Panama City FL
Moonglade
80 C25 #2126 sr/sk
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d636b3127cce8c9d4c83e7890000002010" border=0>

Edited by - on

jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2003 : 13:19:09

Chris,

I installed the CD roller a couple of years ago, when I put new standing rigging on.

I am sorry that JB Manley and that kind of difficulty.

What worked for me was my Dremel tool. I made a half moon shaped opening in the top of the rubrail at the stem, just large enough to push the existing bolt out, the horizontal bolt. I did not cut thru the rubrail.

Using the smallest Dremel rasp, I worked on the opening between the rubrail and the fiberglass stem, until it was just large enough to allow the tang of the new fitting to enter. I used a regular rasp to make it rectangular and the corners square.

Yes, the angle of the tang is wrong, and will not allow you to insert it properly. I used a large block of wood as an anvil, and a ball peen hammer to straighten the tang just enough so that it would slide down into the hole and the stem fitting would sit flat on the deck.

I filled the original holes on the deck with MarineTex, worked the surface flat, and by inserting the new fitting, marked the new holes for drilling.

Once the holes were drilled, I did a final fitting check by inserting the new bolts. All lined up. I put bedding compound under the fitting and installed two of the bolts and tightened.

With the stem fitting locked down, I put a rag between the tang and the fiberglass bow to insure that if my banging got too carried away I would not ding the glass. Using the ball peen I tapped the tang nearly to the correct angle and marked for the holes for the two tang bolts.

Drilled the upper bolt hole and locked the tang down. Drilled the lower, etc.

I saved the horizontal bolt til last, because I found I had to remove the two vertical bolts that I had installed to hold the fitting in place, in order to put the nut on the horizontal bolt. That done, I installed the rest of the bolts.

My fitting does not have the spinnaker tack pennant bale, hmmm, I think I want one.

Patience, friend, when you use the dremel tool and all will be well.

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
Half Moon Bay, CA

Edited by - jwilliams on 09/26/2003 13:22:47

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2003 : 11:48:59

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Thats $80 more than the CD unit.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

As the AR-2 is only $29, I'd guess Dave got some extras with his $185 -- like possibly a Delta anchor, chain, nylon rode, etc.

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cf39b3127cce92448c0b84670000001010" border=0>

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2003 : 18:49:58

Yup, those are the pics of my bow stem refit.

Haven't posted for a while; busy with recovering from kidney stone surgery and then making up for lost time sailing.

The spinnaker tack pennant bale is working quite nicely. The only reason I added it was that I couldn't figure out where to put a block that the roller furling drum wouldn't interfere with, or vice versa. It has held up in all wind speeds that I care to fly the spinnaker (up to 15-18 knots). I was concerned it might be too flimsy and bend.

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2003 : 22:28:58

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Yup, those are the pics of my bow stem refit.

Haven't posted for a while; busy with recovering from kidney stone surgery and then making up for lost time sailing.

The spinnaker tack pennant bale is working quite nicely. John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Where did you get the SS stock? It would be fun to fabricate it, if I just had the piece to do it from.

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

cch
Navigator

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202 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2003 : 23:12:17

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Yup, those are the pics of my bow stem refit.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

John,

Thanks for posting those photos(and Frank thanks for finding them again) These photos have really helped me with plans for my own retrofit. Still waiting for parts.

Chris Hunsicker
Panama City FL
Moonglade
80 C25 #2126 sr/sk
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d636b3127cce8c9d4c83e7890000002010" border=0>

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 12:27:23

Frank,
I'm in Olympia, Wa. We have a small metal fabricating shop in town. Been here forever. Zeigler's Welding and Hitch Shop. I go in and tell them I want a piece of this or that. They cut it and I've got it. I think they charged me all of five bucks for the piece. I think the piece is 1/8" x 1" x 24"-30". Can't remember the length off hand.

I had to notch the port side bow roller guide plate to make the bale fit (see the bottom two photos), but I was able to bend the tang of the new bow stem and then slide it into place without any problem getting it behind the rub rail. I did file the fiberglass behind the rub rail a little so the tang would seat well.

Good luck with the project.

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 14:06:57

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Frank,
I'm in Olympia, Wa. We have a small metal fabricating shop in town. Been here forever. Zeigler's Welding and Hitch Shop. I go in and tell them I want a piece of this or that. They cut it and I've got it. I think they charged me all of five bucks for the piece. I think the piece is 1/8" x 1" x 24"-30". Can't remember the length off hand.

I had to notch the port side bow roller guide plate to make the bale fit (see the bottom two photos), but I was able to bend the tang of the new bow stem and then slide it into place without any problem getting it behind the rub rail. I did file the fiberglass behind the rub rail a little so the tang would seat well.

Good luck with the project.

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Thanks, I think I will get a Drimmel. It seems they are recommended for several projects. I live in Wichita, I know with Boeing, Beech, Cessna, Lear, and Airbus here I can find a machine shop, I just hope someone has SS, if I wanted Al it would be easy.

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 15:54:50

BTW, for anybody who needs stainless steel and who's within a day trip of Stamford, CT, Vulcan Scrap Metal is AMAZING! Every size and gauge of stainless sheet, rod, or tube, and you pay by the pound. A few bucks usually does it. I couldn't believe this place the first time I went there. <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Randall
Navigator

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123 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2003 : 10:39:47

I bought both the stem fitting/bow roller, AND an AR-2, and plan to mount both, so I can hang two anchors off the bow. Gonna either use two Fortress lightweights, or a Fortress and a Claw. Ain't installed either of 'em yet, though. That will be project number four.

Randall
'79 TR/SK "Kite"

Edited by - on

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