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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Proper outboard mount for C-25?

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dhunt
1st Mate

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USA
83 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/21/2003 : 20:34:54

I have a 9.9 Evinrude Seamaster on my C-25. The original motor mounting bracket has been replaced by an aftermarket device . . . It is next to impossible to raise the motor . . .I use a 3 part tackle to do the job . . . It also seems that the prop should be lower in the water by at least a couple of inches. Does anyone have specs about proper running depth for this motor? I believe that the mount I have, has too little swing (not deep enough) and too little counterbalance in the springs. Does anyone have experience solving this problem? Recommendations??

fair winds all

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2003 : 20:52:46

A 9.9 2-stroke is a relatively light engine compared to the 4-strokes out there now. The manufacturer's advice on how deep to run it does't mean much--on a bracket extending off the transom of a 25' sailboat, the pitching motion is magnified, causing the engine to lift more than on any powerboat. My rule of thumb is that, at rest, the anticavitation plate should be at least 4" below the static waterline. Under way, the stern squats somewhat and the engine runs a little deeper. At that depth, most boat wakes and steep chop will cause only minor cavitation--not too much screaming.

For that engine, the best bracket is probably the upgraded version of the original Garhauer bracket that Catalina installed on every C-25. They have better springs that the original, a stainless-backed Starboard mounting plate, and lots of vertical travel. Catalina Direct sells them. You may even be able to buy direct from Garhauer.

www.catalinadirect.com

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/21/2003 20:56:28

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2003 : 21:16:03

IMHO follows...

The Garhauer mount would be great for that sailmaster... however, some folks think the springs are a bit weak for the latest Honda 4 strokes (those over 100 lbs). (No personal experience there)

Garelick also makes a nice 'offshore duty' mount that is very good and is supposed to have more lifting assist in the springs.

As far as I can tell, many early Catalinas came with a "funky and flimsy" motor mount. The base was aluminum angle and the lift arms were aluminum bar stock.

They had a tiny lift handle and a very narrow mounting footprint. I think most MacGregors of the same vintage (late 70's) also came with that mount. Way under-engineered for the later 4 stroke engines.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2003 : 21:26:19

My 1982 Johnson 9.9 (sister to the Evinrude) hangs off of the "stainless Garelick". The old OEM mount was literally wadded up in the sail locker. I have bought the new 4 stroke Garelick 71090 and will put it on when I haul for Winter. It is beautiful. A serious piece of hardware. My anti-cavitation plate is barely underwater with the current unit and if anyone leaves the cockpit and goes forward I worry that I will start pumping air with that my impeller. The throw looks like it will be nice and deep. Someone in a recent post described how to measure and get the mounting location right. It was a nice tip.

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2003 : 22:33:45

For 4-strokes (100+ lbs), my only complaint about the Garelick 71090 is that the vertical travel is only 9.5". Their newer (and more $$)71091 is goes 15.5". At least one person here has one--I haven't seen any posts on how it worked out. There was speculation that its springs would make it necessary to push the motor down--I have seen no reports on that, but pushing down may be easier than pulling up.

I haven't seen the aluminum OEM units on any C-25s, only the OEM stainless Garhauers. They seem to have stood the test of time, which speaks well for the upgraded model. However, their basic design (welded tubes) can't match up to cast aluminum U-channels for strength for holding high-thrust, extra-long, extra-heavy 4-strokes.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2003 : 08:50:55

Dave, you rock. I just sent PYacht an email to see if I can exchange for the newer one. I did not find it on their site when I bought the 71090.

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2003 : 09:54:55

The specs on my Honda 8hp have the anti-cavitiation plate between
5" - 6" under the water.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2003 : 10:43:31

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The specs on my Honda 8hp have the anti-cavitiation plate between
5" - 6" under the water.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

There are two plates, I have always assumed the top one is the anticavitation plate. Is that true?

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2003 : 11:11:15

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

There are two plates, I have always assumed the top one is the anticavitation plate. Is that true?

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
It's the big one right above the prop. Shaft length is measured from there to the top of the inside of the mounting clamps (top of the transom for transom-mounted engines). That plate helps keep the prop from sucking air down from the surface.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2003 : 12:15:04

What is the top plate for? It is the one that is only several inches under water.

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2003 : 21:02:44

I have tried three different motor mounts on my 25 after I destroyed my existing mount even before the first time I sailed her after purchase.

First of all, I have a new Honda 8hp extra long shaft tiller mounted electric start. I believe it is 108 lbs (yes, heavy)

The first mount I tried was a Garelick 71090. The travel is from an almost horizontal position, and then you raise it. It doesn't even get the extra long shaft down deep enough. The springs are so strong you have trouble pushing it down.

I then took it off and mounted a Garhaur, purchased from Lowell.
It has the best travel of all, and really gets your motor down there. The springs are too wimpy for a 108 lb motor. You really have to pull it up with all your strength. (I'm 200 lbs, 6'2" and work out regularly)

I got rid of that mount too (sold it to a C22 owner for a good price)
Garelick gave me full trade in on their new 71091 mount, the one with 15 1/2" of travel. You have to be careful, and know where a manufacturer designs in their travel range. With this mount the lowest position is a little lower than horizontal, by a few inches. It's OK for my motor, but I'm trying to figure out how I can get a few more inches lower. I think I have it figured out and will try a modification this winter. This mount is the same as the other garelick as far as I can tell, the only difference is longer arms on the mount. This gives you the better travel, and also gives the springs more lever arm distance, so the motor is a lot better balanced.

Which of the three mounts do I recommend? If I had a light engine, I'd get the Garhauer from Lowell, or direct from the manufacturer (If they have them) because of the superior travel.
With a heavy engine I'd go for the Garelick 71091

I have heard on these posts that there may be an OMC bracket out there lurking which may work too. I haven't been able to find one.

Good luck, and I hope this helps.

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

Edited by - on

Bruce Ebling
Navigator

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USA
155 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2003 : 21:44:05

I have read in the past about the problems of raising and lowering the relative heavy Honda engines. Has anyone checked out the new Nissan 9.8hp four cycle engine? It weighs in the high 70lb range and has the 25" long shaft for sailboats. It seems like it may be an alternative that might make things easier.
Bruce Ebling
1989 WK
"Selah"

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2003 : 21:56:01

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I have read in the past about the problems of raising and lowering the relative heavy Honda engines. Has anyone checked out the new Nissan 9.8hp four cycle engine? It weighs in the high 70lb range and has the 25" long shaft for sailboats. It seems like it may be an alternative that might make things easier.
Bruce Ebling
1989 WK
"Selah"

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

They ship in late Jan to early February. I understand that the electricstart with alternator is 82lb.

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2003 : 22:11:32

That'll give Honda and Yamaha something to think about... ALthough both seem to be fixated on putting out 300+ hp 4-cycle behemoths--using V6s larger than the one in my car.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Raskal
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2003 : 18:06:44

I've had 2 scary experiences recently with the Garhauer bracket (not the newest version, though it may be functionally the same) allowing the Honda 9.9 4-stroke to kick up when put in reverse. I suspect the Garhauer bracket and the new 82 lb. Tohatsu/Nissan 4 stroke would be a happier marriage. When I'm having a good day and can push the Garhauer bracket to its lowest notch of travel the position of the prop seems dead on perfect. Unfortunately, the Heavy Honda often defeats my attempts to lift and lower it to the top/bottom notch when I need it to go. I'm about ready to dump the Honda in the drink anyway, as you might gather from some of my comments to the Honda carburetor string...

Rich Kokoska, 1984 C25 "Coolatta", Groton, Conn.

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Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2003 : 21:02:46

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I've had 2 scary experiences recently with the Garhauer bracket (not the newest version, though it may be functionally the same)...<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Rich,

I replaced my '85 OEM (Garhauer) mount with the new Garhauer, which I purchased direct on the internet. It handles my '85 Evinrude 8hp 2 stroke nicely, and I've been very pleased with its lift and travel.

J.B. Manley
Antares '85 FK/SR #4849
Grand Lake O' the Cherokees
36°29'58" -94°59'59"

Edited by - on

jsummerfield
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2003 : 21:06:35

I replaced my bracket when I bought the Mercury four-stroke 9.9 hp at over 100 pounds. I do not remember the model but it was a heavy duty model with rectangular aluminum and higher lift than original - and it failed. I tilt my outboard but this could be part of my hard-starting problem.

When you install the bracket keep in mind that the bolts should install above the shelf in the quarterberth at the stern. Also, if you single-hand, the outboard prop can raise too-high and loose pumping when you are at the mast. A deeper prop is better in this regard.

John
C25 3973 FK/SR
"Texas Tango"

Edited by - on

jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2003 : 12:55:43

Hi all,

When I got Hey Jude ('82) the Garhauer mount was loosey-goosey, even with the 9.9 2S Johnson. One of my fixes was to remove it, rebuild the plastic bushings with bronze in the kit they sold, go to larger bolts and install two helper springs. Big improvement.

When I got the 9.9 4S Evinrude, I added bigger helper springs. After a few uses, this caused the two vertical pieces of the operating handle to bend at the bottom because they were holding all that spring tension when the engine was down. Using the vertical pieces as patterns (after I hammered them flat again) I had a local fabricator make new pieces from thicker stainless. Cost about $40 all in. Works good.

The helper springs are chrome plated, from Home Depot. There is a post in the tech tips section about how to drill and rig. Unfortunately, the chrome comes off over time and they rust. They cost about $4 so I just replace them.

You need a stout backer inside the transom for your heavier engines. When I remove the mount next time, I intend to add an external mount also to bolt the Garhauer bracket against.

BTW, If the budget were unlimited I would probably buy a new bracket. One of the cool ultra-heavy duty ones that my wife could lift with her pinkie. Ah, dreams. In the meanwhile, I'll sail.

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
Half Moon Bay, CA

Edited by - jwilliams on 10/03/2003 12:57:11

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Randall
Navigator

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123 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2003 : 20:48:50

Anyone know if the new Nissan 4 stroke will come with rope start in addition to electric start? I'm all for saving weight, but not at the cost of a manual back-up. I walked away from buying a Mercury electric start because they eliminated the starter rope.

Randall

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2003 : 22:07:06

the Yamaha also doesn't have a handle pull start backup for their electric start mounted exterior to the cowling. You have to take the cover off, then some other parts off and then find a cord, thread it on, pull, thread it on...........
All the while you are being blown into a jetty in a 20 knot wind in 4 foot seas.......
No thank you
I want backups to my backup systems

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

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