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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

i think it's time to put gypsy for sale

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77Gypsy
Captain

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USA
356 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/02/2003 : 19:40:40

Gypsy 2 is calling me. a C27 with wheel steering. what price should i ask? i did all the upgrades and i have the honda .9 4 stroke. i'm not sure what she should list for. i want to put her ih the paper next week, any ideas, advice

Steve
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy
<img src="http://www.websdf.com/logo_web.jpg" border=0>

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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2003 : 20:58:08

When it comes time to sell a vessel that has provided you with years of fun its hard to chose when or how much to sell it for. Its like letting an old friend go. Your going to feel mixed emotions. If you look at it from an anilitical point of view then list the upgrades and what they are worth. Look at other sites like Yacht World to see what your type and age of boat is selling for. Check the local sailing rags too. Take into account the extras you have. If you have a trailer (rare as hens teeth for a fin keel) then the price should reflect that. New motor more money or put an older motor on and keep the new one. Sell it seperatly or bargain with it.
Now about selling the boat.
1)Clean it clean it clean it.
2)Take all (ALL) of your personal gear off of the boat.
3)Make sure she is organized and everything is stored in its correct place.
4)set a price that is fair and what the market will bear.
5)advertise on all the local buletin boards. Here, trailer sailor, mirror catalina sites, small boat sites and word of mouth. DONT use a broker you will lose $1500 just for access to their network. Put the boat out where people can see her is she is on a trailer. Move her about. Exposure and visability are key.

Only draw back I see for you right now is its the wrong time to sell. Fall is the end of the season in most places. Spring and summer are the best times to sell.
I would gesstimate the value of your boat at $5000 to $8000 depending on a trailer and condition. Thats a big range for a big unknown. How about pictures ?

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2003 : 21:09:28

IMHO follows... take with some salt as I'm a west coaster.

Fin keel, no trailer ? Out here those are often discounted pretty heavily. C27's go for about the same money.

Rough thumbnail values... based on my recent observations.

C25 FK No Trailer,
Fair...$4-5K
Good $5-6K
Excellent $7K
Bristol $8K

FK with Trailer, add $1-2K to above.
SK with Trailer add $1-$3K to above.
WK with Trailer add $4-$5K to the above.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

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John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2003 : 21:45:18

Try going to [url="http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/index.html.en"]Yacht World[/url] and search for C25’s. Be specific. I typed in “Catalina” size = 25 to 25 and years 1975 to 1980. There were very few boats under 6K. Because yours is an older boat I think you will find you can ask between 6k and 8.5k.
I will say I hate to see you leave the C25 for a C27. Yes you will have headroom without a poptop but Bill Holcomb wrote a comparison a while ago and there is very little advantage to the C27. If I were you I’d stay or make the move to a 30’. When did you buy the C25?

Underlined words are a HOT link.

 

[url="http://www.peregrinefund.org/"]<img src="http://www.peregrinefund.org/images/intro_mid_image.GIF" border=0>[/url]
[url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/photo/peregrine2.jpg"]"Peregrine"[/url] C25-#4762 FK

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2003 : 22:03:27

I don't know your boat but going to NADA (my credit union used NADA when I ask them about my boat) and marking a lot of options you get...
Total Low Retail: $6,505
Total Average Retail: $7,975
This assumes a trailer. Remember upgrades and maintenance are why people buy YOUR boat not why they pay more that market value. Good luck

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2003 : 23:52:37

Boattraderonline.com will show you some boats not being brokered. (Yachworld is broker listings.) As Frank & Martha say, most upgrades help sell, but don't add to the price. Exceptions would be a new 4-stroke, a roller furler, or a trailer. We don't know the vintage of your Honda, but compared to the average 2-stroke, it could add $500-1000. A furler could be another $500, and a trailer $500. It looks to me like the base price for a decent '78 is $5K, but check the sites mentioned here, keeping in mind that you're competing to some extent with boats in the 23-27' range. Set a price that sounds like you have a basis for it--such as $6750, and set it so you can negotiate to what you think is fair--everyone wants to "win" a little.

Then put the prospective buyer on to this site--they should recognize that there's nothing else like it out there, especially for a boat in that price range.

Now..... a C-27? Are you sure?? You get a little more salon, no more cockpit, hardly any more berth space (a smaller v-berth), and barely any more waterline length. But if she's "calling you", what can we say? <img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2003 : 14:46:12

Here's the link to the C25 C27 comparison:

http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=814

Stu

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2003 : 15:21:47

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Gypsy 2 is calling me. a C27 with wheel steering. what price should i ask? i did all the upgrades and i have the honda .9 4 stroke. i'm not sure what she should list for. i want to put her ih the paper next week, any ideas, advice

Steve
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy
<img src="http://www.websdf.com/logo_web.jpg" border=0>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

That was short lived....you just bought the thing in March....and if I recall, sunk a lot of $$$$ into it..... If you go, we will miss you around here.
http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2970

I too agree that the 27 doesn't give you that much more. Except for the headroom, I could use some of that. One of my friends has an O'day 30 we were in the cabin chatting and he asked me why I was hunched over...I guess it was out of habit....

As for a broker.... Douglas is adamantly opposed to it...As usual, I will disagree with Douglas, at least in part. (I am sure he is a fine guy, we just hold different opinions on stuff) I've seen this one go both ways, If you are buying your new boat via a broker, a lot of times they will allow you to trade up, much like a car. I know a number of people who did this and received more than the market would have paid if they just advertised it. The good brokers will work with you, not against you...its in there benefit...IMHO, if your having difficulty unloading the boat, it wouldn't hurt to give one of them a call..

dw

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/images/layout/category_images/t_3964.jpg" border=0>

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2003 : 16:44:20

I agree with Duane on the broker... although don't be too surprised if you have a hard time getting one to be interested in that price range unless you're also buying through them. They tend to lose interest much below $10K. As with a house, the exposure (such as on Yachtworld) can mean a quicker sale for a better price, and if your boat is in storage or in the water, the broker can show it for you at any time and help arrange for haulouts or launches for a survey, etc. The one we bought Passage through provided great service to the seller and to us, and we found the boat on Yachtworld.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - dave bristle on 10/03/2003 16:45:37

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jsummerfield
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2003 : 21:33:24

Some brokers in the Houston area require a $2000 minimum commission regrdless of the selling price. Sell it without the broker and split or pass the savings along to the buyer.

John
C25 3973 FK/SR
"Texas Tango"

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NuNees
Navigator

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USA
125 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2003 : 09:47:45

Steve,

www.nadaguides.com offers a general udea of pricing. Plug in the options yand equipment you have on the boat and get a price estimate.
The label at the entry says someyhing such ass 'Not enoygh volumn to be accurate', what ever they intend that to mean. Normally, pricing guides like NADA are the compilation of previou sale reports, adjusted for reported condition and equipment vatiations. But, at any rate, it's a number.
Next, at the bottom of the page is a link to trailer values andd motor values.

Good Luck.

Bill jaworowski,
Moonbeams.
C25 SK/SR #4953
Sailing Lake Carlyle, IL.

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matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2003 : 11:50:37

Some excellent advice above. I don't want to re-iterate what's already been said, but let me add what I can from my recent experience selling my ski boat. Different animal, of course, but some of the same principles still apply.

First, check out [url="http://www.bucvalue.com/"]BucValue[/url] for another source of estimated value. I know a lot of surveryors use this site.

Second, IF YOU HAVE THE TIME, try to sell the boat yourself. If, after a month or so, the results don't look good, go the broker route. Both routes have their pluses and minuses as stated above.

What worked for me:

1. I was realistic on the price. It was late in the season, a broker would have taken 10-12% and I had expenses coming up (slip fees, insurance, taxes, depreciation, maintenance, etc...). I could have started higher, but I wanted a quick sale.

2. I created a web site with plenty of pictures and detailed specifications. I also added a high level feature list to try and peak interest. If you're interested, I still have a back-door to the site -> [url="http://www.matsche.net/default_searay.htm"]here[/url].

3. Then I put a small, inexpensive ad in the BoatTrader online directing all interested parties to my website. I got 3 calls on the 1st day and sold it within a week and a half. Would have sold it in 3 days if it weren't for the 4th call from the marina telling me I had a leak in my lower unit! (Took a week and a half to get that fixed)

Good luck!

P.S. 27? Go for the 30!

John Matsche 1985 TR/FK #5171

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Jack Heaston
1st Mate

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48 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2003 : 21:42:57

Gypsy 2
Great advice above. I'd avoid brokers if at all possible. Around here it's a $1500 minimum commission and they do a pee-poor job. Our best boat to date was an older C27 (we liked the 6' headroom) which was the biggest boat we could find with an outboard. Have learned that the maintenance of an inboard is endless. All we had to do was turn on the battery switch, lower the 9.9 ES Yamaha into the water, check the oil, push the start button and cast off. If Gypsy 2 has an inboard, I too think you might want to consider a C30. Big boat feel, wonderful engine access (unlike the inboard C27, which is practically nonexistant in the older models), only 3 feet more dock needed, 6' headroom throughout and there are lots of them around.
We are tired of having a boat 8 hours away in Puget Sound and are going back to something trailerabe. Need a boat that lives in our barn and not at a marina. Are looking for a SR C25 WK Mark IV, but would consider a Mark III or maybe even a SK Mark II on a trailer. Nothing found so far.
Anyway, good luck with your Gypsy 2, regardless of what she turns out to be.
Best regards,
Jack

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2003 : 00:20:51

I got to go on board a 1979 C30 this evening. I wouldn't under any circumstances sell my C25 and buy a C27. By all means hold out until you can afford the C30. It is A LOT more boat. Surprising how much it looks like a big C25 - everything doubled in size.

<img src="http://www.indiscipline.org/cat25/pictures/icon.jpg" border=0>Indiscipline 1978 FK #398

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2003 : 08:28:53

I wonder whether that's why they call it "five-foot-ites"?

IMHO the step to a c27 isn't logical, because its only a 2 foot step, but the step to 30, offers significant potential for new uses that are unrealistic in a 25. Just my thinking on this question.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

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Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2003 : 08:53:02

I agree, Don. My C25 is perfect for me now because I mostly daysail with an occasional overnighter (you and I don't get the whole weekend off, do we?). In ten years or so when I retire and I have the leisure to cruise more extensively -- i.e., within the Bay, since I'm probably and my wife is assuredly not a bluewater sailor -- I would love to have a C30 or 310.

It's been pretty clear from the beginning that Steve bought the wrong boat. He kept asking questions about how to replace gear on Gypsy that would essentially turn it into a different model. I applaud him for realizing a C25 is not what he really wants, and for moving on.

Brooke

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2003 : 09:11:01

We have two Catalina 28s at our club and they are the boat that I lust after. While 30s can be had for a song and are wonderful boats, the expenses associated with them are very high. If we were the landed gentry we would not be sailing vintage Catalina 25s, so the cost of ownership is a big issue. 28s are still expensive on the used market and 27s are as cheap as 25s. I can see why someone would want to move to the displacement of a 27 if they sail in heavy air. Like most of us Steve is working the formula: (location X time available) / money = ideal boat.
Good luck Steve, I hope you get a good one, there are bad ones out there! Please read the issues on the 27 association site, their problems tend to be more serious than ours. (There are some nice Oday 27s out there.)

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

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deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2003 : 12:11:53

Every boat is a compromise, the C25, C27 and C30 are just different approaches to that compromise. It is all a question of what do you want in a boat and how much are you willing to pay for it? Each increment in size increases the cost of ownership (you are not going to step your own mast on a C30, and the shipyards charge by the foot). I like the Lin and Larry Pardey attitude (they have cruised the world for the past 30 years on boats 26 - 28' LOA). They say, stay small and leave now, or wait until you can afford that bigger boat, and you'll be too old to sail it.

For me, the C25 has been a great boat for the past six seasons. Now I am ready to sail farther afield, check out some blue water, and go where I have never been before. I am limiting myself to 30K. So that is likely to snag me a 28' Southern Cross or a Bayfield Cutter, or a Cape Dory or a Westsail or a Mariner 32, or something of that ilk, all of them 20-30 years old, and with some upgrading to be done. I would love a Westsail 32 or an Orion, but they are simply out of my price range. If I were to limit myself to coastal cruising, I would absolutely follow the advice given elswhere in this thread and go to a C30--30K will buy a nice one mid to late 80's vintage. The C27 has no singular advantages over the 25, and with an inboard it sails somewhat slower. There are C30's everywhere, which keeps the price reasonable, parts are available and cheap, and you can actually work on the engine (not possible on a 27).

One further word of caution: if you buy a C27, check the engine carefully. Because they are so hard to get at, they are often poorly maintained if not ignored (until they break).

Also, if you are thinking C27, look at a Pearson 28 or a Tartan 28 or a Cal28 all from the same vintage. The Tartan, in particular, is strongly built, commands a higher price, but gets a better resale than most Catalinas.

Though I am not complaining. My 81 fin keel was purchased for $4000, and is now worth close to twice that. Sailboats do not always depreciate. Westsails sell today for twice their original sales price, or even more. Even allowing for inflation, that is something that cannot be said for a Winnebago, or a "land yacht".

Dave on "Wood Duck" (#2616 - SR, FK)

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At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2003 : 19:26:48

You have received lots of good information, I hope this will help too. I just sold a 25 year old 43' houseboat. Here are some of the things that I did and recommend:
-make a list to use as hand out of all improvements and accessories...if they are looking at lots of boat, they will remember yours.
-keep a copy of the list mentioned above next to the phone to be available when a prospect calls.
-in a counter offer, throw in items you do not want/need...tv, radio, water toys, etc.
-be willing to meet anytime to show the boat.
-the boat must be immaculate.
-as part of a counter offer, offer to show them how to winterize the engines, genset, water systems, etc.
-I started my price very high, but let them know it was a 'starting point', because if I gave it to the marina to sell, they charge 10%.
-I came down on the price and they thought they got a deal, because in the back of their minds was the initial high price.
-tell them why you are selling, and be convincing.
-tell them how to get cheap insurance...if you can.
Good Luck!

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frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2003 : 21:39:55

Sail Magazine's September issue has three excellent articles on Boat Buying. I know you are selling, but it mught give you an idea about price, advertising and the process of making a deal. They are not very long, but hit the nail on the head, judging from the responses to this thread.
Like most I would like a bigger boat, but the C30 is the boat. IMHO the 27's I have look at sure don't do much with the extra two feet and unless you get one with an outboard I would not go near it.

Frog and The General
<img src="http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/3f514bcf_339f/bc/boats/__tn_Pretty+Penny.jpg?bc2LWU_AhL8DufLw" border=0>
79 Wing #1166
Pretty Penny

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