Association Forum - has anyone put wheel steering on a C25?

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

has anyone put wheel steering on a C25?

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

77Gypsy
Captain

Member Avatar

USA
356 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/20/2003 : 13:17:51

Is it possible? or should i say, is it realistic? i know it's pretty easy when the rudder is under the stern but am not sure if it can de done with a rudder on the transom.

Steve
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy
<img src="http://www.websdf.com/logo_web.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2003 : 14:05:55

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Is it possible? or should i say, is it realistic? i know it's pretty easy when the rudder is under the stern but am not sure if it can de done with a rudder on the transom.
Steve
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

It is not uncommon at all, I know of several at my lake and others that have come and gone. I used to think it was pretty dumb but now that I own a 25 with all the lines in the back all over the tiller it seems like a reasonable way to clean up the stern. Hopfully someone with the rig will post copious pictures of the components and thier placement. Look at the small boat system for transom hung rudders.

http://www.edsonmarine.com/sailboat/sailboat_toc.html#sswc

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - fhopper@mac.com on 10/20/2003 14:10:43

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2003 : 00:49:40

<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
OK, I remembered seeing this in the tech tips for c25s a long time ago. Here you go to see a novel way of getting wheel steering.
http://www.catalina25-250.org/tech/tech25/tt006.html

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cf25b3127cce91e544e83b8c0000001010" border=0>

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2003 : 09:40:10

Hi Steve,

Edson actually makes a wheel steering system for transom hung rudders. I don't know the going price - but it was around $1,200 a few years ago.

I've seen one such system on a C25. Placing the wheel so that you can get into the fuel locker was an issue as it put the pedistal about at mid cockpit - fairly far forward.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2003 : 18:45:42

I spoke to edson, they offered me a $1300.00 setup minus theactual wheel. that is an additional $300 or so.

The problem I'm having now is that i'm being quoted around
$2500-$3000 JUST LABOR!!!

Steve
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy
<img src="http://www.websdf.com/logo_web.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2003 : 20:25:18

I spoke to edson, they offered me a $1300.00 setup minus theactual wheel. that is an additional $300 or so.
The problem I'm having now is that i'm being quoted around
$2500-$3000 JUST LABOR!!!

Leon,
is there any reason why Steve shouldn't do this himself? All of this installation is above the waterline

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2003 : 08:25:48

The problem I have heard about putting a wheel on the Catalina 25 is space and access. The cockpit sole is quite narrow compared to most other 25 foot sailboats, making it difficult for crew to move around in the cockpit. With the average size wheel mounted on the pedestal, most adults, unless they are anorexic, can't get past the wheel, forcing you to climb up and down on the seat every time. This gets old real fast. Also, as was mentioned above, if the installation is on a Mk. II, III, or IV, the pedestal has to be mounted forward of the fuel locker, cutting the cockpit practically in half. We have two Catalina 250's in our club with wheel steering, and one of the owners says he wishes his boat had come with a tiller, because the wheel and pedestal make the cockpit too small for more than two or three people, and he often has more than that onboard. And remember that the C-250 has a much wider cockpit than the older design of the C-25.

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25WK/TR Mk. IV #5857 "Quiet Time"
Folsom Lake, CA

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2003 : 13:50:52

In my moments of greater insanity I had thought that a wheel might be a way to get more people into the boat. but it seems that's not the case. I generally sail with inexperienced sailors, and like to sit in front of the tiller. If I do that max capacity is 3 other adults, non-anorexic (sp). The next person needs to sit behind the tiller.

Also, I don't like putting significant weight (read that me) behind the tiller.

Oh, well . . ..

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3ce31b3127cce8f8c0cbf1bca0000001010 " border=0>
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY
On the hard

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2003 : 17:05:04

sorry Brooke, I guess I forgot. sorry to disturb all of you with the same question.

Steve
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy
<img src="http://www.websdf.com/logo_web.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

IndyJim
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2003 : 00:33:33

Steve,
No need to apologize. Its not disturbing when a question is asked twice. Many of us C-25 skippers can still benefit from the various experiences and answers. I have an Edson wheel and I really like it. I've done the tiller thing for many years, done the wheel thing for the past two years and I prefer the wheel. To each his own. I'll email you pics.

I've benefitted alot from this great site. King Neptune probably knows that I've ask a question a second time soliciting a variety of answers. There aren't many wrong questions on here, just wrong reactions to questions. Maybe some day Brooke will ask a question that's already been asked and she'll get the same type of reaction.

Jim on "Itza Dew Sea"
'84 SK/TR #4525

Edited by - on

Randall
Navigator

Members Avatar

123 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2003 : 08:24:50

I considered buying two boats (O'Day 25 & Laguna 25) that had wheel steering retrofitted on them and gave up on them when I saw how poorly the wheel actually worked. Both boats had transom hung rudders and the wheel system used a telescoping rod to move the rudders back and forth. The problem was that the rod simply couldn't extend or retract far enough to bring the rudder "hard over" the way a tiller can. In each case, the rudder could only travel about 45 degrees one way and 35 degrees the other. That might be enough travel when under way, but not enough for my liking when trying to maneuver in tight quarters at low speed.

Randall
79 TR/SK dinette Hull 1459

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2003 : 10:11:44

In the latest Cruising World magazine(November issue), Lin and Larry Pardey list the advantages and disadvantages of both wheel and tiller steering, with tiller steering being their preferred choice for a number of reasons.

It their article, they do say that the worse tiller-to-rudder connection is the through-bolt type, which is what we have on the C25.

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2003 : 10:22:05

I was thinking a rudder is probably safe, less moving parts, less mechanicle things to malfunction, but i'm excited about this edson system because if you do have a malfunction you always have the option to slam the tiller back into place after removing a small bolt. in a way, it's kind of a redendant steering system. I think everyone in this association knows i'm a paranoid sailor.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2003 : 11:54:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 77Gypsy
 I think everyone in this association knows i'm a paranoid sailor.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Then why is there a picture of a chute in your signature, don't you know that everyone who flies one of those things dies eventually! Usually it’s a sudden knock down followed by a quick wrap of the mainsheet around your neck just as you are thrown forward, out of the boat. And remember, that is also when the snap shackle takes you out with a slap to the temple, that is the merciful part. It keeps you from feeling the swing cable as it severs your torso when you are drug under the boat as it rights itself to sail on, skipperless, as if you never existed.

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2003 : 11:56:29

LOL!

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2003 : 13:28:34

OH MY GOD!!! I'M NEVER DAILING AGAIN!!!!!

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2003 : 15:55:05

Steve,

I thought you were selling that thing... Now its another 4 grand in labor and parts for a wheel???

Based on all of your posts and questions and the projects you've done you could have gotten a really nice 30 footer for the cash you've spent....

Anyway, about your wheel - I have a couple of comments - If you mount it like the link above, your essentially going to use it like a tiller anyway because it will be behind you.

If you mount it on a binacle in the middle of the cockpit, your not going to be able to stand up and drive, unless you move the traveler and cut the boom down the a little past the foot of the sail.

dw
[/quote]

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2003 : 16:52:28

the setup i'm cocidering is the edson system that sits in the middle of the cockpit. i know it may be a little difficult to stear standing up, but i think sitting to windward may be easier, the reason i am concidering selling gypsy is because i want wheel steering. that's also why i have concidered the C27. I love my boat and this association so if i can get a wheel on gypsy, i think that would be enough modifications for a while.

a 30 fotter? that gives me anxiety just thinking about docking it.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2003 : 07:42:42

Steve... there is a way to have a wheel at a better price... especially if able to find just the pedestal assembly used or at a good price.

Go open wire cable connections. They are not only much cheaper, but easy to install and better in that they don't have the drag or play associated with the flexible cables for the small boat systems designed by Edson.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2003 : 08:26:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 77Gypsy

a 30 footer? that gives me anxiety just thinking about docking it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Steve -

You just need to think of any docking as a Controlled Crash.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2003 : 08:49:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Arlyn Stewart
 Go open wire cable connections.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That took a while to get oriented in my head. What I don't understand is the cables seem to make a 90 degree turn to go up through the deck and it looks like they would not run fair. It looks like they would abrade badly and apply a lot of force just trying to lift rather than run.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2003 : 09:04:52

Now I've never had wheel steering so I can't speak from direct experience, but I would have to think on the C25(w/an outboard) the tiller would be a better choice, especially around the docks.

The slips at my marina are on the tight side and it is almost imperative that I steer with both the tiller and the outboard to manuever the boat. This means that I have to sit on the transom with one hand over the stern on the outboard and one hand on the tiller. With wheel steering, it would be a bit of a stretch if the pedestal were mounted mid-cockpit.

Additionally, rather than throwing the motor in gear when coming into the dock at slow speeds so as to keep things nice and simple, I scull the rudder to make slight course corrections or to keep me moving into the slip. This is easily done with the tiller because I can rapidly swing the tiller from side to side. I don't think this is quite possible with wheel steering, or so I've read.

Just something to consider.

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2003 : 10:31:01

I know what you mean Don. It makes more sense to have a tiller for docking, but because of my docking anxiety i have a 30' X 12' slip. pleeeeeenty or room.

This is the design Edson recommended me: it looks pretty simple in design.

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2003 : 11:47:04

Ok, Here's the deal. i will know tuesday if i'll be putting this wheel in myself or shop for a boat with a wheel in it. i saw a Catalina 27 and a US Yachts 27 both with wheel steering.

Edited by - on

jwilliams
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2003 : 12:18:28

Steve,

Based on your previous posts and this thread, I think you are right to go with a bigger boat with more stuff on it.

There is a guy in my town with a white '90 Nissan Sentra. It has add-on fender widener fiberglass, a wing, smoke plastic covers for the headlights, really skinny tires and American Racing spoked wheels, replacement reflectors for the rear lights that come from some hot rod magazine, fuzzy covers for the upholstery and steering wheel, a really loud boom base stereo, a chrome cover for the gas cap, lighted frame for the license plates that rotate the lights, change color and directions, purple lamps in the wheel wells so that he drives at night in a pool of purple light...and did I mention the tuned exhaust that sounds like a whale singing in B flat, only really low? And the horn plays the Mexican Hat Dance song. Hey, I like it. I just don't get it.

Good luck!

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
Half Moon Bay, CA
Home of the worlds biggest Pumpkin Festival 1076lbs.

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2003 : 14:15:10

I think i'll stop for a while after the wheel. I really can't think of any other modifications yet...

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.