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Trailer project

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/21/2003 : 22:14:50

When I first got my boat on Aug 30 it was on a trailer with petrified rollers and no brakes. I have replaced the coupler components, brake lines and put galvanized shoes on. I should have converted to electrics and will someday. I replaced all of the rollers with a roller that measured 1/2 “ larger in diameter than the originals. The result is that my bow roller is a little over 1/4 “low. I tried to adjust it and twisted off the bolt. I bought a new mast-up and a used mast-up and have the mast elevated to make it easier to work on the boat over the winter. I will use a 4x4 on the tabernacle to support the middle of the mast. The mast will support my cover.
http://homepage.mac.com/fhopper/PhotoAlbum24.html

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2003 : 02:18:35

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I should have converted to electrics and will someday.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Whoa! Electric brakes on a boat trailer are not a good idea, and are definately contra-indicated if you think you might ever want to trailer out to either coast and launch in salt water. As long as you are only launching freshwater lakes, you can get away with electric brakes, at least for a while, but ONE dunking in salt water will destroy them. There is a good reason that almost all new boat trailers are manufactured with non-electric surge brakes (usually disc brakes nowadays). I think some states might have a requirement that any trailer over 10,500 capacity has to have electric brakes, but that is a requirement originally intended for big RV and livestock trailers, and was not thought out properly for the consequences to a boat trailer that gets dunked in salt water.

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25WK/TR Mk. IV #5857 "Quiet Time"
Folsom Lake, CA

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2003 : 10:14:27

There is a lot of confusion on this topic right now. The break manufacturers claim the submersible electrics are fully submersible regardless of the environment. I understand that surge brakes are technically illegal in Kansas and many other states. LoadMaster uses electrics exclusively. I decided against the retro fit because of all of the regulations relating to back-up battery requirements for the trailers and incompatibility of most drums with the electric shoes. I have since talked to a fellow at our club that says his TrailRite had compatible drums, hence my regret. Had I known I would have simply ignored the battery requirements and gone electric. It would have been cheaper and better. If you have ever had electric brakes you would want them on our boats. The ability to “drag” the rig by braking it by itself is a very powerful safety feature.

The lack of comments on my mast-up mod must mean everyone thinks its dumb, no one ever commented on my whisker pole install either. I think Arlyn and Leon have raised the bar too high for us hardly ables. Oh well, my projects make me smile!<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Have Digital Camera - Will Post"

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

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Sid
Navigator

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129 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2003 : 16:06:10

Your mast up mods are fine. I certainly would have appreciated the added head room while completing the work on my C25 before putting her in the slip.
Sid

77 C25 SK #21

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2003 : 16:48:56

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Your mast up mods are fine. I certainly would have appreciated the added head room while completing the work on my C25 before putting her in the slip.
Sid
77 C25 SK #21
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Thanks. Did you see this thread
http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4815
The boat is sail #11 You first hundred guys should start a special interest group. The early Macintosh computers were covered with signatures inside of the people who designed and built them. Maybe you should snoop around, there is no telling what might be there!

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

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Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2003 : 11:36:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I understand that surge brakes are technically illegal in Kansas and many other states.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What does technically illegal mean?

I called the DOTs of all the states I towed Daylight Again thru on the way to and from Indiana last June, including Kansas. They said surge brakes are fine but if the trailer weight is more than 3000lbs they require brakes on all axels no matter what braking system you use.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2003 : 12:09:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bryan Beamer
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I understand that surge brakes are technically illegal in Kansas and many other states.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What does technically illegal mean?

I called the DOTs of all the states I towed Daylight Again thru on the way to and from Indiana last June, including Kansas. They said surge brakes are fine but if the trailer weight is more than 3000lbs they require brakes on all axels no matter what braking system you use.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

As I said there is a lot of confusion regarding this subject. By "technically" I mean that no one is enforcing it. Our Catalina dealer still gets new trailers with surges but two trailer supply houses in town said they were illegal.

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Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2003 : 09:19:27

When I first looked at the boat and trailer I bought, I noticed electric brakes on the front axle. When I went to actually pick the boat up and haul it home, I discovered that there were brakes on only one wheel!

Missed a little detail there.
I am thinking of putting electric dics brakes on all four wheels. As it is, the drum brakes will not work in reverse. The rear drum brakes on the tow vehicle don't work in reverse very well either. This is evident by backing up with the emergency brake on.
My concern is backing down the ramp with only the tow vehicle front brakes working at 100% holding power, and on a wet ramp at that. With disc brakes I can use them manually as I back down the ramp.
Of course this is all theory. I'll let you know if it really works.
I figure that if I short out a caliper, it wasn't sealed correctly from the start and would have shorted out in the rain anyway.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2003 : 09:20:13

Oh Yeah Frank, nice work on the trailer. It looks great!

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2003 : 12:39:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Happy D
 As it is, the drum brakes will not work in reverse. The rear drum brakes on the tow vehicle don't work in reverse very well either. This is evident by backing up with the emergency brake on.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This confuses me. When I had a travel trailer I always thought my electric brakes were working in reverse, but in talking to the trailer supply houses about my boat trailer they all said that boat rtrailers come with backup cut outs. Maybe they just don't want to push their luck with current flowing under water. But hey, I have two wheel drive and the idea of another set of brakes on the ramp was part of what made electrics sound good to me.
How are you going to apply surges manually while you back down a ramp?

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Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2003 : 21:42:19

Opps, the drum brakes do work in reverse. I haven't backed this down a ramp yet.
My brake controller has a manual slider that I can apply the brakes any time.

Electric Brakes Left and Right Hand w/ Plug and Play Wire Pig-Tail

* DOT compliant in all 50 states
* Water-resistant plug-n-play connections assure easy and fast installation
* State of the art corrosion resistant components
* Pre-punched ports for flush kit mounting
* Rubber molded plugs and mating receptacles provide water resistant electrical connection
* Braking in forward and reverse
* Specially designed magnet increases drum life by 50% and doubles the working magnetic surface
* Designed to perform in salt water and other hostile environments.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2003 : 22:11:34

"... the drum brakes do work in reverse.
I haven't backed this down a ramp yet..."

Well, they "sort of" work in reverse....

Wonder why brakes are 'loosely' mounted inside the drum and retained with springs... and why one shoe has more surface area than the other?

It's because when the shoes contact the drum (rolling in the forward direction) they are designed to rotate slightly... and actually get 'cammed or jammed' outward against the friction surface... providing sort of a 'power assist'. (clever)

In reverse, the opposite occurs and you don't have reduced braking power. Surge brakes are engineered use this principle to an extreme and have so little grip in reverse that they are often called 'free backing'.

Now, as far as backing down a ramp... (no matter what design), surge brakes will have no effect as the hitch isn't pressing on the brake actuator.

For my money, I'm putting stainess disks on both axles. I think the "stock" single drums are wildly underbraked.

After towing a relatively short distance of downhill (twisty) road, the single axle drums were remarkably hot. I wouldn't want to face several miles of steep downgrade with them.

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