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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Quarter berth/sail locker bulkhead

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/23/2003 : 22:56:23

I am putting a 5k BTU window AC in the bulkhead between the sail locker and quarter berth. I pulled the bulkhead tonight and was suprised that is was very light and only 5 plys. After the discussion about marine grade plywood a few threads back I expected 7 layers of serious stuff. One corner, (aft lower) was a little discolored from water. It is the only sign I have found of any water damage on my boat. My entire bilge looks like new, bow to transom. Anyway, it seems a little light to support an AC, plus it would be nice to have the original to put back if I pull the AC. Should I used Starboard? I have ordred a small piece from Defender, (they call it ALS or something like that), I will use it for my new Gaerlick motor mount. Should I just get some plywood and do it on the cheap. If I do that and feel it is a failed concept it would be no great loss. But hey you guys make it sound like there is no such thing as too much scrap Starboard.

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cch
Navigator

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202 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2003 : 01:36:22

Frank
Keep me posted on your AC project. I would like to do the same. We had some discussions on a thread maybe a month ago. Do you think the AC unit will have enough ventilation in the locker? Would love any photos if you have any as you proceed.

Thanks,

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2003 : 06:19:30

Starboard=$$$$$

Marine plywood is not the thickness, it is the "glues" and assembly processes used that give it a higher resistance to moisture. It comes in the same thicknesses as regular plywood.

In your case I'd get a sheet of 3/4, around $70.-

The ventilation question is a good one.

Oscar
250WB#618 Lady Kay on the Chesapeake

Edited by - Oscar on 10/24/2003 06:20:20

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2003 : 08:38:56

I am going to try it with the laserette open for a while to see if I like the feature. (It has needed an adjustable support anyway.) If I do then I will put one of these in but rotate it 180 degrees so it can be propped open when it's raining. I will screen it also.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 10/24/2003 08:40:18

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2003 : 13:44:26

fhopper,

In no particular order, here are my random thoughts about your cockpit locker A/C project.

The original plywood longitudenal bulkhead in my 1979 boat has nice authentic looking laminate skins, but isn't particularly impressive as a structural material. I'm not even sure it uses water proof glue.

The differences between exterior and marine plywood come up for discussion from time to time. My understanding is that the glues and the number of plys are the same, but that the marine grade has (almost) no internal voids, where as exterior grade internal plys tend to look like swiss cheese. Also exterior is available in much rougher outer plys than marine. Aircraft plywood is a whole different thing, with price tag to match. I think you could go some what thicker in that location, but note that the top and bottom edges attach to the boat on opposite sides, so the thicker you go, the more tilted the panel becomes.

I'm not a huge fan of Starboard. It has it's place (outdoors), but for this, I'd suggest slightly thicker marine grade plywood saturated with three coats of epoxy. If you want extra stiffness and abrasion resistance, you could add fiberglass to both sides, but you probably won't need to.

In my personal opinion, If you vent the condenser of any A/C unit into that locker, then you need to add not just openings to outside air, but forced air exchange fans as well. You could wire the fans in parallel with circuit for the fan inside the A/C unit, so they cycle on and off only as needed. There are some large 110vac "muffin" style fans that are used to cool rack mounted electronic equipment. They're very quiet, energy efficient, well sealed, and long lived. If you shop around, used ones can be found for dirt cheap. You could mount a pair of them just inside that rectangular access plate shown above. One intake, and one exhaust. Add air deflectors or ducting inside the locker to improve air circulation and eliminate hot spots.

I've never done this, I'm just thinking out loud here. Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2003 : 14:17:24

An electric bilge pump with automatic switch would probably be a good idea, as well. Remember that the sail locker doesn't drain into the bilge, so drainage holes must be drilled through the inboard forward corner. Watch out for the hull that's right below that corner. Also, the quarterberth locker doesn't drain into the main bilge, either. So, more drainage holes to drill.

Where are you going to stow your sail inventory? Or are you a furler.

Edited by - Sea Trac on 10/24/2003 14:18:33

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2003 : 14:46:57

I also recommend against the Starboard--it's good as a backer between an outboard bracket and the transom, but it doesn't claim to have the kind of structural strength you need for cantilevering an A/C unit.

Regarding putting it in the "dumpster", many newer A/C units are designed to splash the condensed water against the fins to absorb and dissipate heat. That can cause some splashing through the side air vents, which could dampen anything in the locker, including your electrical panel, and possibly foster the growth of that smelly black stuff. Between condensation and heat, I really wonder about putting a 5K window unit in there.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/24/2003 17:58:56

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2003 : 15:16:39

I just came back from Home Depot with a 4'x8' sheet of 3/4" Maple/Birch. I seemed to be the best they had. It was $30. Maple on both sides is $40. Could I drain the AC into the galley to-hull. I say to hull because I see no fitting on the outside. However there is no mountain of glass around the fittings on the inside as I have seen in some pictures. It will be fun to try. The Whisper fans are a good idea, I can get all I need. How do you think I should provide AC, I waas messing around with that issue last night as I was wiring the charger and I almost seems like I need to upgrade my AC panel.

Edited by - on

jm
Captain

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Canada
290 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2003 : 11:09:35

I hope it was plywood, and not particle board !

I recall asking Catalina techsupport if the bulkhead between Qberth and locker could be removed - I was going to change the Qberth sleeping direction by 90degrees, and sleep side to side, with head/face at higher starboard side. They strongly recommended against that, because the bulkhead provides support for the cockpit floor, downward structural. Removing it, would result in the cockpit floor sagging, gelcoat cracking, and torque/twist on the port side seat/locker area. If you make a new cut out, and put your AC unit in, assume the AC unit will take some of the downward load from weight in the cockpit.

Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2003 : 11:24:10

I agree with everybody about Starboard. I have been TOLD by knowledgeable sailors that A) it is NOT strong structurally and B)it requires special gluing techniques (everybody thought it was the wonder material that would change our lives to one of ease and sloth, no luck) How about the carry-on model, for the forward hatch? Too much wrestling with it? ron srsk #2343 Orion 1981 in SW FL

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2003 : 13:58:42

I have seen the carry ons and they are often for sale by owner, I think that the more you have to mess with to cast off the less you sail. I have this little AC and I figure I can try it and if it doesn't work out well I will put the original bulkhead back in. I installed a fourplex in my power wall so now I have a place to plug it. I want it to make sleeping on thhe boat better. Most people never notice how hot it gets in Kansas, it is no wonder as the weather channel ignores us most of the time. But we spend a lot of the summer over 100 and if this thing will pull the boat down at night I will be very happy. Last time I had a boat we ended up buying a travel trailor just to get AC. Most of the 28s and up at our club have recirculating AC now. Some are obvious by the hoses over the side of their boats! This seems simpler, maybe it won't be.

Edited by - on

cch
Navigator

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202 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2003 : 00:47:21

Frank,

After all this discussion I believe next spring I am going to try installing the smallest possible window type AC unit in place of the drop boards in the companionway. I realize this will require removal to go out sailing, but feel it will allow the best ventilation for the AC unit. It is getting cool now in norhtwest Florida so will probably put this project off until March or April.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2003 : 14:17:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cch
 Frank,

After all this discussion I believe next spring I am going to try installing the smallest possible window type AC unit in place of the drop boards in the companionway. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">My only issue with that is climbing over it every time you go in or out of the boat. If you are going that way you might want to find a used Cruise Air and set it in the forward hatch. They are out there for between 2 and 4 hundred dollars.

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Mark Loyacano
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2003 : 21:11:59

The CruiseAir is a bit cumbersome, but manageable ... I have run mine from the companionway as well as through the forward hatch. Either works ok. It is important to have a deflector (accessory) to direct airflow either straight or downward.
There are advantages to a CruiseAir ... built tolerant of the marine environment, if it rains the vulnerable (electrical) areas are protected and the worst of the noise is above decks well away from the cabin (no "snare drum" effect).
One major disadvantage is they are not very efficient when the outside air temp is above 95 degrees and the sun is cooking your fiberglass decks. It does ok as the sun lowers on the horizon and the temperature falls below 90 degrees.
I have seen awnings suspended above "misting" water hoses suspended above decks to help cool the fiberglass ... and freon airconditioners were more effective that way.
Even the new permanent installed 1200 BTU reverse cycle systems struggle when the summer temps soar. The last two Summers in Wichita regularly recorded 107 degree high(s)... and for weeks temps stayed in the 'hundreds.
IMHO the best solution is to go to the lake later in the day and sail until dark. Then when fall relief finally arrives...

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