Association Forum - Swing vs Fin Keel Pointing ability

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Swing vs Fin Keel Pointing ability

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2003 : 15:20:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by LOREN SOUERS
 [quote][i] It seems to me that the swing keel would be quicker downwind (than the fin keel I own). What am I missing here?
Loren Souers, skipper
Nimue, the Lady of the Lake (on the hard

til may)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The Association and the manufacturer recommend against raising the keel. I agree that it would help and I do it in light air. You just cannot raise the keel when you race if you are abiding by class rules. The keel pendant has got to hurt us a lot. It makes one wonder about disconnecting it at the beginning of the season.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2003 : 15:26:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 Frank - the J-24 skipper is a former C22 Natl. Champion and a NOOD winner in a J-24. He's only been racing since 1960 so he probably still has a lot to learn...

Derek
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
And you beat him across the line? Inconceivable! If NSA hosts then I will learn alot because I am currently the slowest boat on my lake!

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2003 : 17:03:33

Frank, I beat three J-24s with spinnakers in a race early last season, and have beaten them, off and on, subsequently. two of the three are past club champions. The C-25 is fast enough that it can stay close to the Js, and if they make a mistake, it can beat them.

Most 25' cruisers and racer/cruisers can't do that.

In the second half of the season I started skippering the J-24 owned by the least experienced racer, and must confess that they are a ton of fun. I had never skippered a spinnaker boat before, and regret it now, although a spinnaker is difficult to fly efficiently on our lake.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2003 : 19:08:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 Frank, I beat three J-24s with spinnakers in a race early last season, and have beaten them, off and on, subsequently. two of the three are past club champions. The C-25 is fast enough that it can stay close to the Js, and if they make a mistake, it can beat them.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well a J blew by me a couple of weeks ago, higher and faster, and they were not one of our hot crews. Like I said I am beginning to think it's me that sucks!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2003 : 19:39:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Well a J blew by me a couple of weeks ago, higher and faster, and they were not one of our hot crews. Like I said I am beginning to think it's me that sucks!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
How are your sails? Sails and rig tuning are BIG factors. But I've got to say that any C-25 that can stay with a J-24 in anything under 12 knots of wind is a remarkable boat and skipper. In heavier air, the C-25 starts to gain parity; but let's face it--the C-25 is not designed to do what the J-24 does, and vice versa.

Edited by - on

weluvlife
Navigator

Members Avatar

166 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2003 : 22:44:36

Wow, what a very interesting topic of conversation I've started here 26 postings ago. You've all helped to inform me and definately entertain me. Little do we know how many background readers must be laughing outloud in there computer chairs at the light hearted comedy. Thanks guys :)

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2003 : 09:55:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by weluvlife
 Wow, what a very interesting topic of conversation I've started here 26 postings ago....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
For some of us, this is as close as we can get to sailing for a while...

It's a nice diversion.

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2003 : 09:55:37

Loren,
In racing different classes have different rules. Some do not allow you to raise a swing keel, others do. From what I have gleened here, raising the swing keel shifts the CG (center of gravity) back and lowers the stern. Usually you would like to shift the weight forward when going down wind. This makes raising the keel a little counterproductive. I guess the lower surface area is not as big a factor as the weight distribution change.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2003 : 13:17:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MattL
 Loren,
In racing different classes have different rules. Some do not allow you to raise a swing keel, others do. From what I have gleened here, raising the swing keel shifts the CG (center of gravity) back and lowers the stern. Usually you would like to shift the weight forward when going down wind. This makes raising the keel a little counterproductive.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Excellent point and draws attention to another inherent difference between a shoal keel with a centerboard and a swing keel. I wish Catalina had used a shoal keel and a centerboard. HOWEVER, I am certain it is lawyers not naval architects that coerced Catalina to forbid raising the keel. (Fishing for better informed replies.)... And I am just as certain the officers of this association simply rubber-stamped that litigiously driven edict.

I think there is a difference between class rules and one-design rules and class rules should not restrict trimming of class legal equipment, i.e. the keel and its winch. Gary Jobson recommends raising an appendage to reduce lateral rocking downwind. I sure was rocking a couple of weeks ago and the wing in front of me was not. I ought to be able to adjust my keel to what ever benefit I can get on a given point of sail.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2003 : 14:24:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I am certain it is lawyers not naval architects that coerced Catalina to forbid raising the keel. (Fishing for better informed replies.)... And I am just as certain the officers of this association simply rubber-stamped that litigiously driven edict.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I doubt both statements. I've never seen any indication that Catalina became actively involved in the formulation of our racing rules (unless their opinion was sought), and I can't imagine how they could force the officers to propose a particular rule, or force the members to vote to adopt it. I suspect it was promulgated by members who recognized the safety concerns.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2003 : 20:48:15

Hi Steve
I am sure you are right.

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.