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Nationals, History? Expectations??

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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/30/2003 : 04:36:02

Friends: My local fleet 94 is ready to submit a serious proposal to host a "Nationals" in 2004. We have garnered sponsorships from numerous businesses and we have the support of the local fleet and local sailing groups here on the Columbia River near Portland, OR. However, we are, none of us, really sure about just how LONG of an event we should try for and just what to include. My reading of the board suggests that only 10 boats came to the "Nationals" in Indiana. Is that correct? Someone recently suggested that only 1 trailered some distance to get there. I would assume that was Brian Beamer. I was told that the event on Great Salt Lake a few years ago had only 4 or 5 boats. Is that correct??? My parentheses around "Nationals" is my attempt to recognize the fact that any C-25 race anywhere in the country is, in effect, a "Regional" event. We just need to include more "Regions" occasionally, IMHO.

How many boats is considered a "success" by this group????
And how many races over how many days is considered sufficient? If, for instance, the "Nationals" was, say, 5 races over a weekend, with a practice race on Friday night, would travelers want a longer, more cruise-centered "fun" race or event to occur before or after? Personally, I wouldn't want to trailer my C-25 for several hundreds of miles to race for two days. I don't like to trailer anywhere for less than a week or so.

Or, would enough out-of-towners prefer a longer regatta, say over 5 days??? My local guys seem to prefer to be able to work and race on the weekend. My thinking right now is that more boats would race if it was a weekend thing, but that boats coming some distance would like events lasting somewhat longer, on an optional basis.

So, what have you seen in the past??? What would you LIKE to see in 2004?? Fleet 94 would like to make something good happen this summer. I would LOVE feedback here soon, as I want to get in a serious proposal soon after the end of this month when elections of officers is complete.

Thanks,
Gary B. Fleet 94 Captain
Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2003 : 07:41:13

Gary, I was the Vice Commodore and involved with the selection (read only proposal we got) of the Salt Lake Nationals which by the accounts of those who participated was a rich experience. To pull it off, they asked for and were granted waiver to make it more inclusive by allowing sharing the helm between an experienced sailor/racer and a novice or first time. This because many of their entries had never raced before. Derek can give you more perspective about that as he was there.

My purpose in raising that issue is not to suggest that you do the same, but rather to suggest creativity to do what works for you. I share your values about pulling a boat a long distance... I have seven major hauls on my boat in the last six years... but I don't go unless it can be at least for a weeks worth of sailing.

If I'm not mistaken, Bryan made his commitment to pull the distance last year based upon the value to him that was increased greatly by a visit home and the opportunity to sail/race with his father.

If Canyon Lake or central Texas did a regional regatta at some other time of year than specified by the tradition of the Nationals... then I would haul the six hour drive for a long weekend. And, it would make very good sense for a regional regatta in Texas to be done either in the fall or early spring... summer is not as fun here and it comes very early.

Yes, there are creative things that can be done. I attended a Catalina Rendezvous a couple of years ago and they had a fun race. Upon reaching the coordinates of a boat at anchor... someone on the boat pitched a water melon over... and the racing boat had to pick it up... the next waypoint was embedded within. So, the crew gets to spit seeds on the way to the next mark. This is one example of the things that cause laughs and good times and a divergence for wife and kids from the serious aspect of racing. I'm sure that there are numerous suggestions for those kinds of diversions.

Another suggestion is to make value for fly ins... Provide some logistic help to those who might fly in such as providing coordination for airport transportation and group hotel accommodations. If everyone landed on the same afternoon for example, that may not be too hard or expensive to do. What would cause me to consider very strongly to fly in and enjoy the event is to include a banquet meal with a good speaker... I'd suggest Bill Holcomb. He has a wealth of knowledge, insights, stories, and anecdotes about the C25 and sailing in general. He has been a Catalina dealer, he is a sailing instructor, a racer, cruiser, day sailor and sailboating enthusiast. He has the right stuff to capture the interest of the group. I've wanted to meet him for many years... and his speaking would likely sway me to invest in making a commitment to come.

A day cruise would be ideal for fly ins as well as perhaps ideas for local eating and attractions so that the fly in could make it a 5-6 day event to get value.

I was involved in coordinated the Pensacola Winter Cruise a couple of years ago. It was a week long affair. We had an all day long rain in the middle of the week... but used the time for a side trip to the Pensacola Naval Air Museum. The group loved it.

If you have a dealer close by, see if they will share the Regatta and sponsor are Rendezvous in conjunction.

Edited by - on

wmeinert@kconline.com
Past Commodore

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USA
353 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2003 : 08:22:54

Gary,

This is Bill Meinert, the race comittee chairman for the Nationals in Indiana. We had two boats trailer in for the Nationals last year and they were both winners. There are three divisions of the C-25/250 races Cat 25 standard, Cat 25 Tall, and Cat 250, of which each class has their own Trophie and Champion. Normally a division should have 5 boats in each for a good race, but we had 3 boats in two of the divisions which we felt was a justifiable race series.

I would recommend that this is a race not a cruise in, for every novice who participated in our event they realy appreciated the dedication and skill it takes to win, they learned alot.

As for your part the quicker you can come with a venue times places, hotel info and cost the better. The 2002 Nationals were cancelled because they got started to late and planning for summer events over road skippers plans to show up. I would sujest as we did last year, have the race on fathers day weekend, this makes the wives and kids let Dad have his day. This is not a sexist statement it's just a fact that it is a good weekend.

So please keep it a race not a cruise in. a weekend race is all we need with five races. 4 on Saturday, and one on sunday. I say one on Sunday because you have to have time for the awards and banquet. Plus us out of towners need time to reload our boats. As the Standard rig champion of last year I will come to Oregon for this years challenge so count me in. And I love Salt water!!!!!!!!!!!

If you need more info should you get the race series, please fell free to contact me. I'm Listed in the Club addresses. We hope to be a fleet soon, and I promise to try and bring another boat with me. The hardest part is finding enough Cat 250's to show up. But if you get three, thats great.

Bill

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2003 : 08:41:22

Bill,... I wasn't suggesting that the race schedule be less than 5 races which would give racers their needed value, but that wouldn't be value enough for me to come that far.

Also,... there are aproximately 10 percent c250s manufactured compared to C25s. That means that equal representation would have been 0.8 C250's.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2003 : 08:58:18

Gary,

I bet not every registered member on this forum reads the posts every day. Maybe you can talk to the folks who do the TellTale notification mass e-mailings and get them to send out a survey.

Thanks for yor efforts.

Oscar (Would I trailer out to WA

)
250WB#618 Lady Kay on the Chesapeake

Edited by - Oscar on 10/30/2003 09:01:16

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2003 : 09:43:27

Gary, I am planning on coming to Nationals 2004, whether in Oregon or elsewhere. but I have no way to bring osmepneo, I don't have access to a trailer, nor do I have a tow vehicle to tow 3000 miles. But I will be a fly in.

I suspect I have a crew if I can get a boat. So, I'm interested in "chartering" if boats can be available. If not I would be interested in skippering for someone, prefered, or crewing. If not those ways, I work with the race committee. One thing this all suggests is maintain a list for crew and boats that need crew.

I agree that other activities to provide value for the long drive would be an encouragement for those are trailering. A cruise, a skills series all seem like a good way to be together, enjoying boats and each other.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2003 : 10:39:44

Gary's plans sound awsome. I am sure that Gary's club is as hospitable as mine, anyone would be welcome to stay as long as they liked at NSA. In Kansas it is about the sailing. We have no where to go. So we spend our time learning to go well. Our winds are wonderful when they cooperate.
Our lake is small, that is why we race. As for fly-ins, we are not a major hub in spite of being the air capital of the world (Boeing, Beech, Cesnna, Lear, Air Bus, Bell, and more). Our airport is very handy to the lake but tickets to Wichita are sometimes kind'a pricey. At this point our dates look like 6- 19 or 6-26 or 7-10. The 26th or the 10th would allow someone to work the 4th of July celebration into their trip. We have a large regatta with fireworks and all the usuall stuff.

ok I posted this in two other threads so here it is again...
How about a nationals regatta that has various races, We have a (help me Steve its been a long time) Time on distance regatta called the collossus cup every summer where it is how far you sail in a given period of time. Most races are time on time and we need some of those, plus we could have a time on speed where you must pass a check point at a certain time. We could have a scavenger hunt where you need to locate another boat with items on a list. How about a skills event that requires boats to accomplish sailing tasks i.e. sail backwards past a committee boat, set multiple anchors, hook a mooring... We also have a favorite activity at NSA that involves surgical tubing and lots of water balloons. Nationals should be worth the trip for who ever goes.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2003 : 10:50:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">How many boats is considered a "success" by this group????<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If you have enough boats in any class to make a good race, that's a success in my opinion. Obviously, we would like to have as many racers as possible, but the organizers can't force people to attend. They can only notify people and plan a fun event, and hope that people attend. It helps if there are enough local participants to field a reasonable number of racers, regardless of the number of outside boats that show up.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">how many races over how many days is considered sufficient? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Three races on Saturday and two on Sunday is customary, but I have seem more and less. If the wind fails you, you just have to get in as many races as you can, but that's the nature of sailboat racing. Usually, June seems to be a fairly reliable time of year for decent winds in most venues. Personally, I think a five-day regatta would be too much racing.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">would travelers want a longer, more cruise-centered "fun" race or event to occur before or after?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If the venue is appropriate, a rendevous and group cruise after the regatta would encourage more participation. Many self-avowed non-racers would like to crew on a racing boat (because they don't feel confident enough to race their own boat), but they would really enjoy cruising and socializing with a group of other Catalina sailors. More racers would be likely to participate, too, because a combination of racing and cruising would increase the incentive to pull your boat to the event.

One thing is very important. You have to remove all the impediments that might discourage people from participating. Make arrangements so that everyone will have all the assistance necessary to launch and retrieve and rig their boats, and to provide them crew. If people are assured that they will not have to do all those things all by themselves, they are much more likely to attend. Finally, you have to repeatedly assure people that such assistance will be available.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2003 : 11:00:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by osmepneo
 I am planning on coming to Nationals 2004,
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I think it would be nice for the Association to have a chaplain at events. We have a blessing of the fleet event every year where all the boats sail by the shelterhouse and recieve a blessing. Me, I'm a heathen but I think it is a very nice event anyway.

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2003 : 11:08:12

Wow....super feedback thus far. Thanks a bunch. BTW: we are "tentatively" planning a five race over 2 day series. We have plenty of moorage (very cheap...and several of us in the local fleet will pay that, so it's free). We have sponsorship commitments from local sailing organizations to do R/C, host a barbeque, and we have arranged sponsorships from a marina to do lifts and retrievals for 1/3 the usual cost. Yes, we have an airport, and the local sailing club has 2 25s that are potentially "rentable". I am now working on good rates at a local inn, and a clubhouse at the marina looks good so far.

We will most certainly have enough C25s, as we have 2 TRs in our fleet who want to race, and probably 5 at least SRs. At present we have no C250s in our group, but the local dealer is trying to contact owners for us now......

This is all unofficial at present, as we have not submitted this formally. This is to let nervous people know that we in Portland are seriously working to make sure that there will be at least one serious proposal for a "National" event.

Gary Bruner
Fleet 94 Captain
Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2003 : 11:30:27

Gary - as you know I would fly-in to Portland. If I had a TR available to "borrow" or rent my crew would also fly-in. Failing this I'd be happy to crew for you

In Salt Lake we had 6 races - 3 on the Friday and 3 on the Saturday -this still left time for catered meals and socializing on both evenings, but left Sunday free for travel home. (By the way - there were a total of nine boats racing - only one C250. I think there were 5 SR's and 3 TR's who were the only boats running chutes).
If the Nationals are held in KS I'd have to start searching for a trailer to rent and a tow vehicle...I wonder if Steve M. can make it to KS...
Derek

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2003 : 11:59:36

Thanks, Derek, for clearing this up. BTW: Having raced with me this summer at the end of July on the Columbia, would you care to comment on the venue....winds we experienced, etc.? The course would be a bouy affair, between the bridges, not unlike the beercan race we did on Friday night, when we kicked a little "tush"..You, as a Texan, might be considered more "objective" than those of us who live here and want to see this happen.....

Danke,

Gary B.
Fleet 94 Captain
Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

svmoxie
Past Commodore

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USA
331 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2003 : 12:26:00

Gary,

I would not trailer out there from NC

but I will attend regardless of where we hold it. I would agree that holding the "Official" races on a Saturday would allow the most participation.

A practice race on Friday might benefit those who travel in, several (3 to 5 depending on conditions) races on Saturday for the Offical Event and then a fun race on Sunday sounds like a good plan to me.

What is a success? For me it is:
<ul>
<li> At least enough boats for the three classes to compete </li>
<li> No one was hurt and hopefully no boats damaged </li>
<li> Everyone had a good time </li>
<li> The entry fees balanced the expenses </li>
<li> The beer is cold

</li>
</ul>

The more boats the better. I like Arlyn's idea of having a speaker although that will most likely raise the cost of the event unless we get a VERY generous person.

Having the option to stay on with either free or disounted docking and some local knowledge cruising guides would be a plus if I was traveling in but I wouldn't expected a week of being entertained.

You could plan an extended cuise after or before the Nationals for those who would like to participate but that isn't really part of what I would expect.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2003 : 14:59:07

Comments on racing on the Columbia:-
1. It's just a beautiful area...
2. You can count on steady winds, sometimes too steady!! The wind usually builds during the day, or starts strong and lays as the day progresses.
3. It's fascinating to have to deal with both tide and current.
4. Tomahawk marina is a neat and tidy place - well protected.
5. Gary B. is one heck of a nice guy and a great organiser.
The Columbia at this spot has numerous navigation buoys which the RC use as permanent marks. No matter what the wind direction they can set up their desired course. All in all it is indeed a great place to race.
Derek
P.S. Gary - #5 will cost you some helm time...

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2003 : 15:36:55

It sounds beautiful. Post some pictures.

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2003 : 11:10:59

For those who would like to see photos of racing on the Columbia, the following link will take you to the site of a professional photographer in our area who has posted pics from the Six Pac event last July on the river. We raced from Portland to Astoria and part way back (well over 100 miles). It was pretty windy most days. Other pics are available by finding Sail Portland on your search engine. I don't personally have a digital yet.

www.rhumblinephoto.com/product/sixpac2003/index.htm

Gary B.

page 5, sxp3-18-14 is the only pic of Encore! here, and we aren't in shape at all after a tack....but it's less harrowing than the near head on collision he took with us involved. We missed boats by maybe a foot????
Fleet 94 Captain
Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - Gary B. on 10/31/2003 23:24:26

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2003 : 12:10:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">[i]

www.rhumblinephoto.com/product/sixpac2003/index.htm

Gary B.
Fleet 94 Captain
Encore! #685 SK/SR
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
WOW!

Edited by - on

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