Association Forum - MOB!..A real wake up call

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

MOB!..A real wake up call

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 10:57:38

On the question of pelican hooks...
On the C25 (at least on TSU) the hook connects to the forward stanchion on the stern pulpit. If the hook clasp is on the inside it is very easy to brush against it and have it spring open (I nearly went overboard one time, leaning out to check genoa trim...) Now, I make sure, before leaving the dock, that both closing loops are on the OUTSIDE!
Derek

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 11:09:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 I think I like the quick stop... ...so I am comfortable gybing in any wind.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Me, too. Since the mainsheet is to remain tight in order to maintain only the smallest amount of headway, gybing in this instance shouldn't really be a concern, anyway.

Edited by - Sea Trac on 11/07/2003 11:10:51

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 16:00:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Question to all, are pelican hooks subject to this sort of failure?

Interestingly we have talked on this forum a great deal over the years about so many safety issues but I can't recall pelican hooks ever being a matter of concern. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My pelican hooks/lifelines are tensioned so they are not so easily released(It takes two hands). This way they will not inadvertently open so easily.

Edited by - on

Todd Frye
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 18:08:45

Bear,
Your post mentioned you have your O.B. running (in neutral), just in case you go MOB. Although this does make it quicker to get back to the MOB, I'm sure you are aware of the serious implications, especially if you re-enter the boat from the swim ladder. The figure 8, although slower, is sooo much safer.
Fair winds, Todd Frye

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

Members Avatar

672 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 18:23:29

Lots to learn from this near tragedy. MOB is difficult, but not for me at night. As wonderful night sailing can be, I refuse to go out at night. Primarily due to the number of power boaters out (many under the influence of too many adult beverages) who fly up and down our lake...some with no lights.

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 18:49:57

Steve:

Thanks for sharing! This summer the Martha's Vineyard ferry came close to losing two crew members during an MOB drill using a 200lb floating dummy. Only the prompt actions of a Yacht Club launch run by three teenagers saved the lives of the sailors who were trying to get their inflatable into position to do a pickup when the ferry ran over them and capsized their inflatable.

What I get from all this is that an MOB is one of THE, if not THE MOST DIFFICULT situations we can be called upon to contend with. Yes, it is crucial to have the right equipment (a lifering at a minimum, and a hoisting tackle, flares, etc.), but in the end, it is practice that gives the confidence to maneuver the boat quickly.

Just a thought: if ever I lost someone overboard (God forbid), my captain's log would be my most important ally in the likely ensuing lawsuit, detailing my (from now on) monthly practice MOB drills.

Someone else made the point: there has to be at least one other person on board who can bring the boat to a halt, heave to, or otherwise take the way off. Don't leave the dock until you're confident that person has been identified and appointed first mate pro tem.

Steve's story is (if we needed it) a reminder that sailboats are potentially very dangerous places to be, water is a generally unforgiving medium, and that darkness intensifies everything.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 20:14:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Someone else made the point: there has to be at least one other person on board who can bring the boat to a halt, heave to, or otherwise take the way off.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I guess us singlehander's are on our own.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 20:57:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 

I guess us singlehander's are on our own.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Some offshore singlehanders drag a couple of hundred feet of line with knots every 50' or so behind the boat.

I haven't invested in a Lifesling, but, in the starboard mini-locker, I do carry a 75' floating poly ski rope (with handle). The bitter end is looped to drop on the port stern cleat. It is deployed in our MOB drill--theoretically as an aid in case we slide past the victim while approaching upwind.

Another big issue is getting an unconscious or otherwise injured victim back on board, especially on a C-25. I'm considering a snap shackle for the mainsheet/traveler connection, allowing the mainsheet to be freed to be used as a lifting tackle with a sling, and the boom and topping lift as a crane. Any thoughts or experience with that? (I heard a story about a woman who couldn't get her unconscious husband back on board, so she essentially lashed him to the side of the boat and dragged him to the closest marina. He survived...)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/07/2003 21:02:12

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 21:08:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by At Ease
 Lots to learn from this near tragedy. MOB is difficult, but not for me at night. As wonderful night sailing can be, I refuse to go out at night. Primarily due to the number of power boaters out (many under the influence of too many adult beverages) who fly up and down our lake...some with no lights.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
NO NO NO OH PLEASE,NO. Night sailing is the the single most wonderful time to sail. A moonrise with Cat Stevens on the stereo, friends who have never sailed before, snacks and yes what ever drinks are appropriate. Please do not turn your back on something that is such a huge part of sailing. Carry a handheld spot light and a shot gun if you have to but SAIL! Honestly I would break all the protocalls and get halogen spreader deck lights. The biggest anchor light on the planet, and how ever many other lights I needed to remove the threat. Light yourself up like an airstrip. Put an airhorn compressor on board. Keep a flash camera and snap the hull #s as they go by and turn them in.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 21:25:51

Todd,
The thought of my wife doing all the things right just to get back to me is scary, even if it is with the motor and tiller. The water temperatures until late July and August are unberable in upstate N.Y. No one, I mean no one in my family even knew you steered a sailboat with a tiller, they didn't even know what to call it. I'm sure there are others on our forum with the same situation within there family. Hopefully none of us have to endure a panic stricken spouse with that responsibility. Fair Winds and calm seas Todd. "Bear" on the hard in upstate N.Y.

Edited by - on

ssteakley
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
467 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 22:15:36

Arlyn,
The pelican hook on the Starboard side where we board requires one to push the locking pin in, it closes partially but not completely on its on. One of the guest set the life line and I failed to check to see that it was locked completly. I have learned now that even with verbal directions that even experienced guest may not understand. On another sail during daylight I directed a guest to toss the bow dock lines onto the dock prior to leaving the slip. I took care of the shore power and the stern lines, I began backing out and we soon came to a complete stop....I looked forward to see what was going on and the guest said " Should I have removed both lines?" ...
I will now double my efforts & recheck every system when guest are on board and want to help. I keep telling myself over and over again that you never should get in any hurry on a boat. As skipper I was responsible for every detail,
Steve

Edited by - ssteakley on 11/07/2003 22:16:47

weluvlife
Navigator

Members Avatar

166 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 22:21:33

Very interesting and important forum. I sail singlehanded most of the time. I make a habit of dragging a knotted rope behind the boat with a bumber attached to the end. I've always thought how horrible it would be to loose my balance, fall off the boat and watch it sail off into the distance.

When I do have company, they do like jumping off the boat and grabbing the trailing line, pulling themselves back to the boat and repeating this process over and over as a way to cool off in the CA heat.

Mark

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2003 : 10:06:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by weluvlife
 Very interesting and important forum. I sail singlehanded most of the time. I make a habit of dragging a knotted rope behind the boat with a bumber attached to the end. I've always thought how horrible it would be to loose my balance, fall off the boat and watch it sail off into the distance.

When I do have company, they do like jumping off the boat and grabbing the trailing line, pulling themselves back to the boat and repeating this process over and over as a way to cool off in the CA heat.

Mark
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Also interesting is the difference between a blue water sailor and a lake sailor. That drag line makes all the sense in the world for you and I would like to think I wouuld be diligent enough to do that as well in your situation. For we puddle people a personal flotation device and a sound maker are probably the best set up. There is a self inflating "fanny pack" life vest that a lot of people are wearing at my lake and a pocket air horn rounds out thew equipment. We should carry a flasher of some sort but I have never seen one at the lake.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2003 : 10:43:48

One comment about using a motor for MOB... Anyone who has tried to push or stop their C-25/250 by hand around a dock knows how much force it takes to do that. Our little outboards suck a tremendous amount of water with tremendous force in order to do it. Watch the currents around your transom when you put the motor in gear, even at idle. Moving water exerts massive force that can pull a person under the boat and into the prop in a heartbeat. Any MOB victim anywhere close to the stern of the boat could become much more of a victim if you are trying to maneuver under power.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2003 : 11:00:31

I don't think most of us would stand much chance of pulling ourselves back to the boat if it was moving more than a couple knots. (Seems like many of us are in our 50's or better)

Perhaps securing the trailing line to the tiller would be a good idea? That way if you were hanging on, you'd put the tiller hard over and the boat should at least turn back.
On autopilot, I think you'd be SOL.

When I was a young man I rescued a fellow who had strayed into a shallow spot on the Humboldt Bay bar. A set of waves came in that broke right where he was at... flung him and his boat through the air. (still remember that image) At any rate, in the short time it took me to get over there and pull him and his partially swamped boat out of the shoal area, he was barely able to hang onto the transom, let alone pull himself aboard without assistance.

Point being, if you're single handing in cold waters and go over the side with nobody around, your chances are not good. Objective 1 is to stay aboard or at least be tethered close to the boat so you can get to the transom ladder (Transom ladder = Important safety item).

If you get detached from your boat it's up to the PFD, strobe light and a big helping of luck.

Edited by - on

cvwall
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
56 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2003 : 08:42:15

Many good points, but harnesses and tethers on anyone out of the cockpit at night, regardless of sea state, should be a rigidly enforced rule. A harness on anyone alone on watch at night should also be required. People go overside for many embarrassing reasons, not least using the lee rail and being surprised by a wave (unseen) suddenly pitching the boat

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2003 : 16:08:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I guess us singlehander's are on our own.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Don, I think that is the very definition of a single hander.

Seriously, though, I meant what I said about having "hard and fast rules". I don't go out at night alone without being hooked in. In the daytime I harness and jackline in the summer above 20 knots, spring and fall from 15 knots (survival time is shorter in the colder ocean).

A Life Sling costs about $100. When I sail with crew, they are often inexperienced. I consider it an insurance policy.

My life vest (Stearns inflatable) is equipped with a twenty dollar strobe lite and a two dollar whistle.

Now I think of it, the only time I have been overboard (unintentionally) was when I was returning to my boat on a mooring late at night (yes, after a party) and I stepped from the dinghy dock onto the dinghy and missed completely. I never did figure out who had moved my dinghy...

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.