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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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New engine - any recommendations?

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bill
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/06/2003 : 11:21:20

My 1987 OMC has finally come to it's end of life. After investing too much money into it this season and still having it run like crap, it is time to break down and repower.

The current engine is the 9.9 Sailmaster, long shaft, electric start, with generator, 2 stroke. I know that I'd like to go with a 4 stroke for a bunch of reasons but the weight issue is still one I cannot get over so will probably purchase only a 2 stroke.

It looks like for about $1700 I could buy a Mercury or a Nissan. I haven't investigated the Hondas or Yamahas yet. But I'd like to get some recommendations for what I should be purchasing, and paying, for an engine to use to power this 1982 swing-keel. My sailing waters are in Barnegat Bay in NJ so wave/cavitation problems are few.

Thanks for any insights, warnings, recommendations.

Bill

Edited by - on

nate
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2003 : 11:56:53

Bill,
No doubt it's a bummer to have to purchase a new OB....I have a 1987 Yamaha 9.9 and every time she starts acting up I start dreaming about a new motor hanging on the transom.
My understanding is that Nissan/Tohatsu is coming out with a new "light weight" 4 stroke 9.9 hp motor this year that will also be avail. in the xl (25in) shaft.
My research and inquires on this topic lead me to believe that Honda was the favored 4-stroke motor if money was not an issue. I can't really comment on 2-strokers except to say that I have a little 3.5 Nissan for my dinghy and the thing works great. Good luck in your search.

Nate Adams
C25 #5695 WK/SR/Trad
"Heeling Properties"
Lake Mead, NV

Edited by - on

Chip Hunt
Navigator

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120 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2003 : 12:28:03

i have a 2001 yamaha 9.9 4 banger with electric start and an alternator that keeps the starting battery fresh. it cost in the neighborhood of 2500 bucks new, and has run flawlessly for 2 1/2 seasons. it has a long shaft with a high-torque prop on it. the only drawback is that it is a bit heavy, but i think the elec start makes up for that. i was concerned about the transom warping due to the extra weight, so i had a backing plate put on that helps to distribute teh weight over a larger portion of the transom. no problems yet. the 4 stroke is the OB of the future, and buying a new one will guarantee that you will have a great low-maintanence motor for years (unless you get a lemon, which is always a possibility).

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2003 : 12:36:38

Bill,
I'm sure you will get lots and lots of comments. You might to research the archives and look at some past threads.

I am an anti-Honda 8 four stroke!

I've had one for five years and it has been a pain since day 1. This season it was very undependabel for starting, that I junking it and am replacing it with a Nissan 9.8 2 stoke with extra long shaft, and electric start. I decided on this for a couple of reasons 3-6 gallons of gas a year will not contribute to pollution. The extra depth helps assure that the prop is in the water and I'm not cavitating and its not a big deal to premix fuel.

Some love Hondas, I don't. Period.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2003 : 13:21:32

Bill: having watched many threads on this over the last five years, my observation is that the favored 4 stroke on the forum is the yamaha. There have been many reports on here of Honda problems. On the other hand, there are also strong opinions against the swing keel, and mine has been trouble free.

My 1985 Mariner/Yamaha 2 stroke is a gem, and runs flawlessly. The 2 stroke fans on here seem to favor the current Nissan/Tohatsu.

Brooke

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2003 : 13:32:47

The Nissan/Tohatsu seem to have a strong following. The new light weight 4 stroke coming out should be the perfect compromise. The only issue I see is the track record. I am always leery of NEW designs. Anyone remember the VEGA?
If you can live with 2 stroke, that is a very safe purchase. My sailmaster is still running good enough to wait another 2-3 seasons before choking on a new outboard price-tag. Good luck.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2003 : 14:19:21

In 1979 I bought a new 2 cycle Merc 7.5 with long shaft, electric start and alternator, and it still runs great. Looking back, however, I would not buy the electric starter or the alternator, and that would save on the purchase price.

I don't need the alternator to keep my battery charged, because my dock has 110 electric shore power, and I don't need the electric starter because it's very easy to pull start a 7.5. If I didn't have access to shore power, or cruised frequently, then the alternator would be good to have. My point is, think about how you actually plan to use the boat, and buy the options that you will really use.

If you will really use those options, don't try to save boat units by not getting them. Over the long run, they'll amortize themselves.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2003 : 15:00:12

I am in my mid 50's, I do not yet have a trophy wife so my wife is also in her mid 50's. An electric start is a requirement for me, otherwise my wife will never try to start the engine. Like Steve said it is who you are and what you need, the price will work itself out. The most expensive motor is the one that does not do what you need it to do.

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

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USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2003 : 17:19:01

if the weight is an issue and you want to stick with 2 strokes, I recommend a Tohatsu.

I have owned 2 tohatsu 8hp elec start 2 strokes and loved them. i have the honda 9.9 now because it came with the boat. if i ever need to buy another motor i will go back to tohatsu.

Basically, it is EXACTLY a nissan with a smaller price tag, usually $150.00 less. in fact, the owner's manual say's nissan on the front.

i think i paid around $1300 for a 8hp long shaft w/elec start.

if you want to look at some prices i always bought them from these guys:

www.onlineoutboards.com

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2003 : 17:56:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I am always leery of NEW designs. Anyone remember the VEGA?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

. . . or the Pinto? The problem was, they weren't new designs. They were cheap versions of what already existed, just as the first Mustangs were Falcons with different sheet metal. Unfortunately, not much has changed in American manufacturing. Drive a Cavalier and then drive a Corolla or a Civic. It's just a whole different universe.

Brooke

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2003 : 18:41:55

Brooke, Brother, are you now going to knock my Cavalier convertible?

Steve, thanks for the comment about Outboards-on-line -They are one of the places I'm thinking of using for my Nissan two stroke.

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2003 : 18:58:26

The vega I remember blew the original engine at 200 miles. It was a new -light -weight design that used an aluminum block with no cylinder liners. It took 3 engines and about 6 months for my parents to get the car running right. Good ole 1976 I was 5 and still really remember the smoke an engine makes when it lets go!!!!

Moral of the story: Beware New revolutionary designs. Let someone else work out version 1.

Edited by - on

Randall
Navigator

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123 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2003 : 20:02:55

Frank, I'm with you again, man! I'm fixin' to turn 53, and my wife turns.......ummm.. another year older on Monday (also our 25th anniversary), and she has mandated that I buy electric start. She can't swim a stroke, and refuses to hang off the transom & yank on a rope.

Bill, when you compare prices on electric start engines, be aware that Mercury and others delete the recoil starter to save 'em a few bucks. If your battery dies or your starter motor hangs, you have to go through some changes: remove the cowl, find a rope, wrap it by hand and pull-- probably more than once-- to get it started. I wouldn't buy an engine without a recoil backup.

That new Nissan/Tohatsu looks better all the time! According to the Nissan site the electric start also comes with recoil start, and the 81 pound weight is only 20 lbs more than my Honda 5 horse.

I've had my Honda 5 for nine years and I love it when it is running at 1/4 throttle or more, and fear it at idle. It has NEVER idled smoothly, and has caused many white knuckle moments when docking.

Randall
79 TR/SK dinette #1459
Central Texas

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2003 : 21:42:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Brooke, Brother, are you now going to knock my Cavalier convertible?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Brother Don, I'm sure your Cavalier (what an awful representative of such a fine image -- wahoo-wah) will do plenty of knocking all on its own.

Convertible, huh? Do I smell Mid Life Crisis?

Brooke

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2003 : 21:56:01

Bill:

Not sure where you sail, but if it's a lake, I'll throw in a recommendation for the Nissan/Tohatsu 6hp 4 stroke. It's actually a couple pounds lighter than the Tohatsu 8hp 2 stroke and has plenty of power (for the lake). It's single cylinder is pretty smooth up to about 3/4 throttle, after which it tends to have more vibration than I'd like. 3/4 will get you about 5 knots which is good enough for me.

If I were on the ocean, I'd probably opt for the Tohatsu 8hp 2 stroke for the added power and smoothness. A lot of the Mercury engines are the exact same engine as the Tohatsu's, so check them out carefully. You might save a few bucks.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 10:12:21

Check out the Honda 8HP 'Classic' model that has been re-introduced by popular demand.

These were great engines, and really 'built' Honda's reputation. Lighter, comes in a 23.5" shaft model and should be cheaper than the 'new generation' motors. No electric start though.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 13:49:49

I guesse I'm the only one in the Catalina 25 community who is happy with his Honda. I have the 2003 model extra long shaft electric start high thrust tiller steered model 8 hp.
Runs great
Less filling

I like the quiet, the lack of stinky exhaust, and the high amperage alternator.

Starts with barely a touch on the starter button

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 18:13:07

Not the only one, Frank! My Honda 9.9 has worked flawlessly since new in 1998. It is the xtra long shaft (28"), with alternator and electric start. It has ALWAYS started on the first touch, idles smoothly, is quiet at part throttle, and pushes the boat at hull speed while consuming less than one half gallon per hour. I have it on the OMC mount, which I can raise and lower with a couple fingers of either hand.

Every fall I rinse the motor in fresh water for two hours and change the engine oil and bottom end lube, and replace the plugs whether they need them or not. Oh, and clean the gas filter.

I bought it from Sault Ste. Marie Honda in Canada via the Internet and including shipping it cost $2300.

If I were buying today, I would look seriously at the Honda 8 xtra long shaft. Lighter, faster, better looking.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 21:44:27

My '02 Honda 8 XLS Power Thrust has been great so far, too (for two seasons). The only problem was the plastic throttle damper, which Honda replaced with a better-designed assembly. If you have problems getting it to hold, get the new one--it's on recall.

Edited by - on

jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2003 : 00:52:59

Hi all,

When my original Johnson 9.9 Sailmaster (still have it as a spare) acted up to the point that I could not trust it (overheating) I started researching 9.9 4S's. This was three years ago.

Price was the issue. Found a new Evinrude 9.9 4S Estart long shaft with the 4blade prop at a dealer in Oregon. He could not move it because the river people wanted regular shaft units. It was two years old, but never fired up. New warranty. Bought in OR to avoid CA taxes. Including shipping to CA it was $2041 all in.

It is heavy so I had to reinforce my engine bracket. It is strong, dependable and gets to hull speed at 3/4 throttle.

So, shop the dealers, you may find a deal.

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
Half Moon Bay, CA

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2003 : 06:56:40

Hey Jim,
How dare you shop in Oregon to avoid California taxes. How else are all the illegals going to get their welfare checks, food stamps, etc.

Just kidding. I would have gone to Oregon too.

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frich
Captain

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USA
418 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2003 : 20:19:40

In case anyone is interested I have my Yamaha 4 stroke up for sale on the swap meet. Motor is very dependable, Long shaft, w/ hi thrust prop and alternator

Frank r

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seads
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2003 : 00:06:30

I love my Nissan 8hp 2 stroke w/ electric start and alternator. Only rec: Get XL shaft. Ours is long shaft and is OK but at higher speeds or in chop water tends to splash up onto from of engine after washing up front of mounting bracket. You might have to go up the the 9.9 to get XL shaft. Paid about $1500.

Edited by - seads on 11/09/2003 00:07:16

jncarlin
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2003 : 15:49:32

Got some news for those who are recommending the Nissan (and Tohatsu) 9.8 2-strokes extra long shafts - they are no longer made

. I got one from the very last batch made

(this was in August). There might be a few hanging around at various Nissan dealers - if there are, you had better get one soon. Nissan is phasing out all of their 2-strokes and moving exclusively to 4 strokes.

Joe Carlin

Edited by - on

GeorgeB
1st Mate

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90 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2003 : 21:21:26

For what it's worth there are probably a lot of a reasonable selections out there. When I bought mine I decided based on availability of dealers. Didnt want any more 115 mile drive to get a service done.

I wanted more push. my 7.5 couldn't get me home against 30 Kt wind

. I wanted an engine with a large alternator to charge larger battery bank. The largest disadvantage to my choice has been the weight. There has been a major shift in the trim of the boat

Iguess you can't have it all

Edited by - on

jsummerfield
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2003 : 20:26:54

In 1996 bought the Mercury 9.9 four-stroke long shaft electric start. I have paid a lot for mechanics to try to make it start well. I think that this was actually a Mercury buyout of a Japanese motor - and they may have a different supplier now.

If you are considering the Mercury similar to mine, save the money and have Tow-Boat US just take you in and out each time.

Edited by - on

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