Association Forum - Bilge Pump

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Bilge Pump - repair or replace

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

dhunt
1st Mate

Member Avatar

USA
83 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/24/2003 : 12:09:01

Hi guys - Thanks again for your help and this group . . . I read EVERYTHING!

My cockpit bilge pump sputters but doesn't move water. I am working on drying the boat but still get an inch or so of water in the bilge. Catalina Direct has a complete replacement unit for $85.00. Are there other alternatives? Is the factory unit rebuildable or sealed? Anyone added a 12volt model (don't ever want to be without a manual system but convenience of power also would be a plus)?

Thanks

David and Sharon Hunt on Solitaire, #800 sk-sr, Marietta GA

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1595 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 12:52:57

I would recomend a Whale manual pump to replace the old factory unit. I would also put in a Rule electric if you have the extra boat units.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 12:54:01

David and Sharon,

Here are some links to other articles and posts about bilge pumps.

I installed the three pump system described in [url="http://www.sailnet.com/collections/articles/index.cfm?articleid=caseyd0044"]Don Casey on bilge pump systems[/url].

Here's a guy who has seen more good, bad, and ugly pump istallations than the rest of us put together, [url="http://www.yachtsurvey.com/bilge_pumps.htm"]Dave Pascoe on bilge pumps[/url].

Here's some stuff I wrote, with links to the threads that brought up the topic:

[url="http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/tsarchives7/index.cgi?read=251048"]Bilge Pump Wiring[/url]

[url="http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/tsarchives7/index.cgi?read=230990"]Bilge Pump Outlets[/url]

[url="http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/tsarchives2/index.cgi?read=166269"]Pump Handle Configuation[/url]

Those, along with the additional links they contain, should give you something to read. I hope some of it is helpful.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

CatalinaGuy
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
55 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 13:59:53

West Marine has the rebuild kit for the original Guzzler pump. I just rebuilt mine. Cost about $10.00 and works like a champ. I thought about replacing it, but didn't want to deal with the time and cost of installing new mounting points.

Edited by - on

dhunt
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
83 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 18:26:28

The three pump system sounds like a winner.

I know the intake is just aft the inspection plate in the middle of the cabin . . . at least that's what I've read. Where is the lowest accessible point in the bilge to mount an electric pump? How do I get access to the bilge end of the hose to check for obstructions?

(I know I should just get down and LOOK but like most folks I'm closer to my computer than to my boat).

How much water has to be standing in the bilge before a functional oem pump will move it? . . . How much is left when the manual pump has done all it can?

I'm just full of newbie questions - like a kid in a candy shop of good information!

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 20:04:21

David and Sharon,

Re: "Where is the lowest accessible point in the bilge to mount an electric pump?"

If you have the dinette interior, I think a small (i.e. short) centrifugal electric pump might be able to fit under the dinette floor on the port side of the keel trunk, but you'd likely need to do some cutting to get it in there. On the stbd side (all early models), there's room under the companionway stairs for a small centrifugal electric pump aft of where the sole dips down. Again, some cutting may be required in the liner tabbing under the quarter berth to get in there.

Re: "How do I get access to the bilge end of the [manual pump] hose to check for obstructions?"

Either locate the pickup end of the hose at or near an access port (like a Beckson plate in the sole), inside a locker, or plan on pulling the hose out back under the quarter berth (not recommended). The story is similar for the centrifugal pumps, but they don't clog in the hose exactly, because they have built in pickup screens. When they do clog, you need to be able to get at the entire pump -- either by having really good access where it's located (in a locker), or by dragging it out of its hiding place by its hose (wedged under the sole at the steps).

Re: "How much water has to be standing in the bilge before a functional oem pump will move it?"

Assuming you mean a small centrifugal electric pump, it might have to get 2" or 3" deep to set off the float switch. There is one such type of pump that starts by float, but automatically continues pumping until the impeller sucks air, which draws the bilge water level down much lower than the cut off of the float switch, maybe as low as 1/2". I think Rule makes it, but you have to read the features & specs carefully to identify it.

Re: "How much [water] is left when the manual pump has done all it can?"

It depends. If the end of the hose is bare, about as deep as the diameter of the hose, 1" to 1-1/2". If you install a proper strum box, could be as shallow as 3/8". A strum box also makes it a whole lot less likely that the interior of the hose will become clogged at an inaccessable bend with old Q-tips, popsickle sticks, toothpicks, other wood splinters, misc. fiberglass scraps, papertowels, soggy package labels, etc.

Re: "The three pump system sounds like a winner."

A wise choice. My primary electric is 500GPH rated automatic (described above), but strangled down from 3/4" to 1/2" hose. It's wedged under the steps. My damage control pump is rated at 3,700GPH with 1-1/2" smooth bore hose. It's mounted under the galley sink a few inches higher than the smaller pump. That one is controlled through a high current relay by a separate external float switch. As I mentioned in one of the links above, each elec. pump has its own dedicated circuit breaker bypassing the main battery selector, and each is wired to a different house battery charged by independant solar panels. There's an automatic battery combiner relay to share charging current if one panel is shaded by the mast (or a sleeping cat).

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 22:03:44

Leon's got the hot setup (as usual)...

Manual pump as "final backup".
High-capacity "damage control" pump. (I like that term)
Smaller "get the odd bit of water out of the bilge" pump.

Be sure to read the customer reviews in West Marine on bilge pumps and float switches before you buy anything. Some of them are pretty er... "revealing".

I went ahead and ponied up the bucks for a good-quality high capacity pump, 1-1/2" hose, and a 'no moving parts' electronic water detection switch. Wired on it's own circuit with it's own fuse and a "Manual-Off-Auto' switch (with pilot lights).

One other thing I'd like to add later is an audible alarm circuit.

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 23:08:17

The standard manual blige pump is a Guzzler 400, and a repair kit is available from West Marine. It is likely the diaphragm in your pump has a split in it. It takes about fifteen minutes to pull the pump, take it apart and replace it. Make sure you remount it facing in the right direction.

I have a question for Leon:

I am about to fit an electric bilge pump (in case of disaster). In my current installation, the pickup from the bilge (1 1/4") goes to a Y valve, where it is mated with the pumpout from the holding tank. Then one hose goes to the manual bilge pump, and thence to the thru hull in the transom. The pump is fitted with a check valve to prevent siphoning.

When I fit the electric bilge pump and run its hose, can I Y it to the outlet hose from the manual bilge pump (fitting a check valve ahead of the Y) and run it out the same thru hull in the transom? Or should I keep the two systems separate?

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2003 : 00:02:40

Dave,

Re: "In my current installation, the pickup from the bilge (1 1/4") goes to a Y valve, where it is mated with the pumpout from the holding tank. Then one hose goes to the manual bilge pump, and thence to the thru hull in the transom."

So far, so good, providing there's a high anti-siphon loop between the pump and transom, and the transom thru-hull is near both the center- and water- lines. (Using the same transom thru-hull for both bilge and holding tank is a special case.) I'm not enthusiastic about the restriction introduced by the Y-valve, or the aesthetics of emptying a holding tank above the waterline.

Re: "The pump is fitted with a check valve to prevent siphoning."

So far as I know, all diaphragm pumps contain two check valves by design. Adding any more check valves in line with those is redundant, reduces flow unnecessarily, and creates an additional potential clog point of dubious accessability.

Re: "When I fit the electric bilge pump and run its hose, can I Y it to the outlet hose from the manual bilge pump (fitting a check valve ahead of the Y) and run it out the same thru hull in the transom?"

I wouldn't. I can see why that would be tempting, but I would rather have extra thru-hulls in the transom than extra restrictions and potential clog points in what amounts to an emergency safety system.

Re: "Or should I keep the two systems separate?"

I would. for my three bilge pumps I ran three separate hoses to three transom thru-hulls high up, but sort of hidden just inboard of the engine mount. The transom of a typical C-25 is so cluttered anyway, I just don't see this as a significant appearance issue.

Here's a link to a post by the knowledgable [url="http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/tsarchives7/index.cgi/read/230960"]Dave Doolin on bilge pump outlets[/url].

I'm glad that you're putting some thought into your pumps and discharges. If more thought had gone into mine before somebody fired up the holesaw, I'd now have two less patches in my transom.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - Leon Sisson on 11/25/2003 00:23:58

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.