Association Forum - Got the racing bug!!

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Got the racing bug!!

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2003 : 04:50:43

Nate - you don't have to move the traveler to make it usable.In a past thread there's a pic of my mods (I can't access it on this PC because I'm in UK). I'm sure that Don L. could find it and post it. It's a simple mod. Use (on each side) 3 turning blocks bringing the control lines to mid cockpit on the side of the seats close to the cockpit sole, and then up to a small camcleat with a fairlead. I also put a small fairlead on each side of the transom/seat junction to clear the line off the corner of the seats. I used 3/16" line - it's plenty big enough.
Derek

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2003 : 08:05:45

The following text and pictures are curtesy of Derek Crawford....

"Nate - you don't have to move the traveler to make it usable. It's a simple mod. Use (on each side) 3 turning blocks bringing the control lines to mid cockpit on the side of the seats close to the cockpit sole, and then up to a small camcleat with a fairlead. I also put a small fairlead on each side of the transom/seat junction to clear the line off the corner of the seats. I used 3/16" line - it's plenty big enough.

Derek"

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2003 : 09:45:35

If you release the windward mainsheet traveler cleat, and then set the leeward traveler cleat before you start to tack, the traveler is much easier to use. It's awkward to use it when it's under load and you are shorthanded, but it's much easier if you reset it when the load is off.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2003 : 11:22:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 If you release the windward mainsheet traveler cleat, and then set the leeward traveler cleat before you start to tack, the traveler is much easier to use. It's awkward to use it when it's under load and you are shorthanded, but it's much easier if you reset it when the load is off.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Excellent advise counselor.
From an earlier post
This is my solution to improve traveler control.

I have yet to try it but I think it will work well. The issue now is do I make it continuous line which kind of relegates it to the helm'sman or do I make each side it's own line so It can be controlled by either the helm'sman or the crew.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2003 : 12:50:02

Steve - I finally get to disagree...the problem with the traveler is that it's behind the helmsman. When tacking, as helmsman I'm responsible for the tiller and the mainsheet. As we come out of the tack the main is slightly eased to power up (that's one hand) and the tiller is centered (that's the second hand). Last time I checked I only had 2 of 'em! If you release the windward control before you tack, the traveler shoots across to leeward and depowers the main just when it's driving best. It is so easy with my mod to have the crew control the traveler - it's so quick & easy for them to do, rather than having me fumble around behind my back.
Derek
P.S., Don L. - thanks for posting the pics.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2003 : 13:56:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I finally get to disagree...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Nah! We agree. You just don't realize it.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2003 : 14:22:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I finally get to disagree...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Nah! We agree. You just don't realize it.

Your mod is a truly ingenious way to make the traveler work better, but I'm just suggesting a way that will work fairly well for those of us who are too cheap, lazy, or set in our ways to install your mod.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Steve, I agree with you that the best helm'sman tactic is to release and set the traveler prior to a tack. The loss of drive a moment before tacking would be neglegable, we all agree the boat is head sail driven and we all let the head sail backwind to bring the bow accross quickly in a tack so the main dropping a few degrees as we go into the tack is no biggy.

Edited by - on

nate
Navigator

Members Avatar

240 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2003 : 15:00:02

Guys,
Lots of talk about the traveler....but don't you find the mainsheet being aft a bigger hassle?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2003 : 23:35:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by nate
 Guys,
Lots of talk about the traveler....but don't you find the mainsheet being aft a bigger hassle?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes, but if you want to have a usable pop-top, which is part of the C-25 concept, your only other choice is a traveler across the cockpit seats--not a family-friendly solution. The C-25 was not built to be a J-24. If it were, we and a lot of other people would've bought something else.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2003 : 07:41:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Lots of talk about the traveler....but don't you find the mainsheet being aft a bigger hassle? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
When sailing to windward, the biggest problem for me is releasing the mainsheet when the boat is overpowered in a really strong puff. Occasionally I have to let the tiller go and use both hands to get the mainsheet out of the cleat, and even then it can be a struggle. Probably the best solution would be to replace the cleat with one that works better.

When sailing downwind, I generally make it a habit to keep my body aft of the sheets, so they don't decapitate me if there is an accidental gybe.

I agree with Dave that the traveler is functional for the design, but it takes some getting used to.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2003 : 09:19:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 
When sailing downwind, I generally make it a habit to keep my body aft of the sheets, so they don't decapitate me if there is an accidental gybe.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
How do you do that, Steve? Stand on top of the stern rail? The outboard, maybe?

I saw an interesting device made by Dutchman, that dampens the movement of the boom during the jibe. The lonely rep demoed it to me at the Norwalk Powerboat Show (or what turned out to be just power this year

). It was pretty cool! I have a brochure somewhere, but can't find a site about it.

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2003 : 09:53:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I saw an interesting device made by Dutchman, that dampens the movement of the boom during the jibe.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hey Dave, is that the boom brake that's advertised in the back of Sail magazine? Although quickly sheeting in the main on the jibe works pretty well, I thought the boom brake might be a good addition. I'm currently using my boom vang attached to the stanchion mounts as a preventer, but I thought the tensioner on the boom brake might be more convenient.

Regarding the traveller location and the 25/250 not being a J24, etc., the 25/250 is a GREAT boat, but everyone has slightly different priorities and preferences. One of the greatest things about the 25 (can't speak to the 250) is that the quality construction and well designed layout allows for substantial modification. Traveller on the cabin top with or without quick releases for the track, traveller at the companionway either on the seats or on the sole, etc., etc. Personally, I intend to move the aft cleats outboard to the topsides, and then place a full beam traveller track just in front of the aft pulpit stanchions. I'm less concerned about clotheslining than I am about the limited functionality of the traveller's travel (BTW, I loved the commuter comment someone else made).

One modification might be right for some and another right for others, depending on their priorities and preferences. As you know, my pet peeve is the heavy weather capabilty, or lack thereof, the weatherhelm rounding up problem, and the high freeboard. However, all those issues are annoyances specific to me and my desire to develop my sailing skills and equipment modifications for more extreme conditions. None are really problems inherent with the boat's design, but at times I discuss them as if they were. I suspect that other's "complaints" are the same, or else they would have moved on to another boat already. IMHO, you absolutely cannot beat the design of these boats for their intended purpose.

Edited by - Sea Trac on 11/15/2003 09:55:05

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2003 : 10:11:22

by the mainsheet during an accidental gybe, but you can be relatively safe if your are seated in the cockpit with your back against the stern rail.

Edited by - dlucier on 11/15/2003 10:13:16

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2003 : 11:38:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Antares
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I saw an interesting device made by Dutchman, that dampens the movement of the boom during the jibe.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hey Dave, is that the boom brake that's advertised in the back of Sail magazine?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yup. I see it's also in the Evil Empire catalog and the Sailnet site. I was quite impressed by the way it worked, but I'd like to see a real installation...

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2003 : 13:27:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">How do you do that, Steve? Stand on top of the stern rail? The outboard, maybe? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If the boat is running on port tack, I sit in the aft corner of the cockpit on the starboard side with the sheets lying across my chest. If the boat gybes, my torso will be behind the sheets instead of in front of them. When the boom flops across the cockpit, the sheets will follow it without any interruption by me.

Incidentally, I might have found a solution to the mainsheet cleat problem. Our local Catalina dealer had a 20% off sale today, and I bought a ball bearing Harken high-load cleat ($29.95) to replace the old one. It doesn't exactly fit, so you need an adapter plate ($7.00). The Harken cleat should work much more smoothly. We'll see next spring.

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2003 : 17:30:42

As I read this thread, I thought, "OK guys go and get a J24 150, and think its equal to our 155, and lets see what happens on the race course. The j24 used sail may be good enough for day sailing, but for serious racing, I gotta agree that you want all you can get, and that means 155 cut to the limits of legal.

Thanks guys for a great discussion.

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.