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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

curious about auto pilots and auto helms.

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77Gypsy
Captain

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USA
356 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/12/2003 : 17:24:59

i've used them on larger boats but what is involved with rigging one to a C25?
cost?
easy install?
and recommendations?

Thanks!

Steve
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2003 : 18:34:40

77Gypsy,

I've had a Raymarine Autohelm ST2000 Plus tiller pilot on my 1979 C-25 for a couple of years now. My boat has a standard rig, swing keel and original unbalanced rudder. It's the best single handing or cruising upgrade I've made. As for prices, check [[url="http://www.sailnet.com/store/item.cfm?pid=20395"]www.sailnet.com[/url]] for deals (currently $580). Installation could hardly be easier. In the most basic form, just supply 12VDC power via 2 wires. Mechanically, there's a small stainless steel pin that gets installed in the tiller, and a small brass socket that goes in the coaming. For installing the ST-2000 on a C-25, you would likely also need a 5" ram extension rod, sold separately. I also got the optional extra long threaded tiller pin and maybe 15' of the special Raytheon Autohelm wiring harness.

For a more elaborate installation, you could put the electrical connector inside a coaming box, add a remote control, interface the autopilot to a GPS and/or a windvane, etc.

One detail I do suggest is the use of a dedicated circuit breaker. If the ST2000 is forced hard over by wind or wave action, it doesn't seem to have internal limit switches. Instead, its motor stalls and draws much higher than normal current. If wired through a fuse, this could leave you hunting for spare fuses with the autopilot stuck hard over under the very sort of sailing conditions when you would much rather be up in the cockpit keeping an eye on things with a smoothly working autopilot.

Some others have reported satifactory performance from less powerful tiller pilots on C-25s sailed in sheltered waters. After using the ST2000 to steer to the Abacos in the Bahamas and back, I don't regret the extra money spent on its additional speed and power. Obviously your choice needs to depend somewhat on how you intend to use your autopilot.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

10timesSaltier
1st Mate

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80 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2003 : 21:22:23

I use an ST2000 and couldn't live without it. I love it. I also added a solar panel on top of the main hatch...that helps with the batteries that the autopilot loves to chew through.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2003 : 21:26:46

Note my tiller pilot installed in this photo. I use it all the time (rarely steer by hand). The autotack feature is essential when singlehanding.

This model is available for under $300 from sailnet. It could be installed and operating in about an hour.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2003 : 23:09:36

At 9:00am this morning, my ST1000 arrived at the Raymarine Service Center in New Hampshire for warranty repair.

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2003 : 23:26:38

Hey Jim,

Cool outriggers! A couple of questions regarding that photo:

Is the bamboo(?) pole running up the backstay a boat hook?

Do you not have a permanently installed swim ladder? If not, what do you use and why?

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2003 : 00:15:57

I like to make things myself when possible. I made my own boathook from a bamboo pole I bought at a plant store for $2.50 plus one of those vinyl covered hooks you could hang something on in the garage. I keep the pole in a rod holder and snugged up along the backstay. I need it often because of all the kelp beds around Mission Bay - often find long kelps fouling the rudder or motor.

The rod holders (outriggers to you) were a bit more difficult, however I designed and made 4 of them for about $30 using PVC, oak, U bolts and other hardware. The oak pads have a groove cut in them for the rails. The PVC is drilled and bolted to the pads. The pads are u-bolted to the rail. The rail is wrapped with tape to protect it from the u-bolts. The whole assembly is painted to protect it and make it not look like PVC. $30 for 4 compared to $50 for one from West Marine.

I also made my own bait and cockpit table (not shown). Also cost about $30 compared to over $100 from WM.

I don't have a permanent swim ladder and I'd like to add one someday. I wear a harness and clip on the mast when I'm out of the cockpit. In an emergency I figure I could reach up and unplug the autopilot and climb up the motor mount, but I really want to remain on board at all costs!

When anchored, we have a lightwqeight aluminum ladder that clips on the port or starboard cockpit. I generally climb on board from the kayak or dinghy without using this lightweight thing.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2003 : 07:20:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Antares
 Hey Jim,

Cool outriggers! A couple of questions regarding that photo:

Is the bamboo(?) pole running up the backstay a boat hook?

Do you not have a permanently installed swim ladder? If not, what do you use and why?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

He also has the hot racer rig for a split backstay. I want one of those set-ups.

Edited by - on

Jared
1st Mate

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USA
70 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2003 : 07:40:26

Do you have a picture of your bait and cockpit table? I was thinking of making one like in the Tech manual, but if yours is different, the more ideas the better.

How does the ST1000 perform for those that have used the smaller autopilot from WM?

I had considered being el-cheapo and rigging up a sheet-to-tiller steering system that I had seen some links on. Anyone have experience with this? Maybe it just looks cooler than it works or looks like more work that it is worth? Here is the link if anyone is interested.
http://www.jsward.com/steering/index.shtml

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2003 : 09:08:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">How does the ST1000 perform for those that have used the smaller autopilot from WM?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My ST1000 performed well for me, up until it failed!

Size-wise the ST1000 is identical to the ST2000, the differences are internal. This was my second season with the ST1000 and at the end of this season it started moaning and groaning. I didn't abuse it(I have the balanced rudder and try to balance my sail plan to keep weather helm to an absolute minimum), but it probably got more than average use because I'm a sailing fool.

Having said that, I previously recommended the ST1000, but that was before it failed. Now I might have to bump up my recommendation to the ST2000, with its recirculating ball drive, in lieu of the belt drive of the ST1000.

Hopefully, I will get a call soon from Raymarine with the verdict on my ST1000, and I'm hoping that they will let me upgrade to the ST2000 at cost

instead of repairing my ST1000.

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2003 : 10:16:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 The rod holders (outriggers to you)...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks for the opportunity to learn something new. I'd always thought the rod holder was being referred to as the outrigger. Never even realized that there were specialized rods being used. And I thought fly rods were expensive.

Edited by - on

Earl Landers
Navigator

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USA
157 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2003 : 10:36:15

JimB,
If you are still looking for a permanent boarding ladder, and happen to be in Orange county, check out what's available at Minnies's Surplus. http://www.minneysyachtsurplus.com/. A while back, I got a 5 rung SS boarding ladder for $35. It is "new" and still had polishing compond on it. Looks very similar to the existing 4 rung ladder on my Cat.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2003 : 14:07:23

Jared

I used the (main)sheet to tiller system from John Letscher's book (Self Steering for Small Craft) for a few years (1987-1990) before we bought an autopilot (Navico 800 with the old dial, before everything became pushbuttons).

I got very good at working the system, and sailed on San Francisco Bay tacking every 20 minutes or so with no problem.

The trick is to get the lines and blocks set up with clam cleats on the coamings so you can make a quick switch when you tack. I also had a small cleat on the bottom of the tiller which was useful to easily deploy the connection there.

It's pretty nifty, and teaches you a lot about sail trim, which is necessary to know to keep the boat balanced. It works fine up to a beam reach with main to tiller sheeting. After that with wind aft of the beam, it's by hand or you go to the jib sheets which I never did.

The ST1000 and ST2000 will both do fine wih a C25. Our Navico was even less powerful and it worked fine here in San Francisco during the summer winds.

In lieu of using an extender bracket from the coaming as shown in the photo above, my daughter had a great idea: we put the pin for the autopilot right in the hatch on the starboard side (after reinforcing the inside of the hatch with plywood). Then, when we engaged the autopilot, we just scooted the cockpit cushion forward, so that the front of it ended up laying against the back of the cabinhouse. It saved having to buy and install the cantilever bracket, and you can't sit there anyhow when the autopilot's in use.

Stu

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2003 : 16:20:36

I purchased my tillerpilot about 4 years ago, before I knew about the excellent advice offered by this forum. "The guy" at the local West Marine said both Autohelm 1000 and Navico 100 (aka Simrad 10) were excellent units, they sold about equall numbers of each, but maybe slightly fewer of the Navico's came back for warranty repairs. For this reason and the fact that the Navico was a bit less expensive ($279 currently at Sailnet), I bought the Navico. A few on this forum have reported having to return their Autohelms for warranty repairs (but this may simply be due to many more forum posters own the Autohelm vs. Navico), although all have praised the excellent customer service provided.

A friend had his tillerpilot installed the same as Stu's, but I didn't like having to move the cushion. So I installed the brass socket and the power plug into the top of the coaming (like Leon's?). The unit is only slightly off horizontal this way, but seems to work perfectly, and a 5" screw-in extension rod costs much less and is simpler than the cantilever bracket.

Edited by - on

allencl
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2003 : 11:25:06

I have been very happy so far (2 seasons) with the Simrad TP10. It has fewer features (like no GPS interface) but has been very reliable for me in steering the boat tirelessly; it seems strong and well made, and is less money than the Raymarine products. The thrust ratings are higher than the ST1000. Check out Sailnet for prices.

I installed mine something like Stu and Richard's and it's a clean simple way to do it. I put the power plug and a switch in the coaming compartment and it is fused separately on a second panel I have added. As Leon mentions with the Raymarine pilot, the Simrad will blow a fuse if hard over (at the end of the pushrod's throw). This has only happened once to me, as the pilot is never near the end of its throw if mounted properly and on a steady course.

Virtually everyone who has talked on the forum about their tillerpilots say that this is one of the most useful additions you can make to the boat, and I would agree.

Let me know if you have any questions...

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2003 : 11:38:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by allencl
 I have been very happy so far (2 seasons) with the Simrad TP10. It has fewer features (like no GPS interface) but has been very reliable for me in steering the boat tirelessly; it seems strong and well made, and is less money than the Raymarine products. The thrust ratings are higher than the ST1000. Check out Sailnet for prices.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Pictures like yours look so strange to me, there is no land!
I enjoyed your homepage, sorry neither of you graduated from K-State, there would have been purple somewhere on your site!

Edited by - on

allencl
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2003 : 12:59:13

Frank,

Thanks! I checked your photos out, too- great boat pictures and a lovely family! The autopilot pic was on a windy broad reach leaving Block Island Sound for Buzzard's Bay.

Cheers,

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2003 : 22:44:43

I take it the dink tows pretty well with the nose lashed up like that?
I'd wager it might be a problem in a following sea though.

Edited by - on

allencl
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2003 : 14:01:27

Hey Clam,

I tie the nose up like that in rough conditions because this particular inflatable starts to nose down and tow badly at high speeds. You can feel the drag on the painter lessen as you haul the bulk of the dinghy out of the water and tie her nose up. It will take on water no matter how you're towing it when it's rough but the angle is steep enough when she's tied up that she can't hold too much water- it will start overflowing and draining over the transom.

I do wish the monster was easier to stow on board during long runs. It's time consuming to deflate and bag it- and then not readily available if one needs it as a makeshift life raft (perish the thought).

Edited by - on

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