Association Forum - Autopilot Anomaly

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Autopilot Anomaly

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Member Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/17/2003 : 17:29:45

I’m passing this information along to those who have the Raymarine ST1000+ autopilot…

Today, the Raymarine technician who repaired my still under warranty ST1000+ called to tell me that it was repaired and on its way back to me. The main reason he wanted to talk to me personally was not to inform me of my autopilot's status, but to give me some advice on the use of the autohelm autopilot, particularly the "AutoTack" feature.

He started out by telling me that what he was about to say would probably sound a little odd coming from a Raymarine representative, but it needed to be said. What he went on to tell me was something I discovered and knew about shortly after installing the autopilot two seasons ago.

Anyway, he informed me that the "AutoTack" feature causes the vast majority of premature drive failures, such as what happened to my ST1000+, and SHOULDN”T BE USED.

The reason is that AutoTack turns the boat through 100 degrees (just as if you hit the 10 degree button 10 times), but the autopilot itself will only turn through 30 degrees before the ram maxes out. So until the boat hits 70 degrees of the turn, the ram is maxed out and stops moving, while the drive motor continues to work resulting in a lot of squealing and groaning. Once the boat reaches the 70 degree point of the tack, it stops overdriving and the ram starts moving back towards the center position as the boat approaches the full 100 degrees of the tack. Before the autopilot reaches 70 degrees though, the unhealthy noises emanating from the unit are contributing to premature drive failure.

This technician has asked the engineering department to incorporate end limit switches to shut the drive motor down to prevent overdriving, but he said the engineers haven’t been too responsive. This leaves the repair technicians to continue to make repairs and call customers to alert them to this problem.

I asked the technician if it would behoove me to upgrade to the ST2000+, with its faster ram speed, and he stated that this is even more of a problem with the ST2000+ because the ram moves faster and will max out sooner causing the autopilot to overdrive for a longer period of time.

I found out about this anomaly soon after installing my autopilot and pretty much wrote off the AutoTack feature as useless and haven’t used it since, but those first initial times I used it along with the couple of times when the ram inadvertently hit the end of its travel was enough to cause my unit to fail prematurely. So the moral of this is, if you have either the ST1000 or ST2000, you may want to stay away from the AutoTack feature. I know I will!

Don Lucier

North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2003 : 18:06:14

Don,

Both you and the Raymarine technician have performed a valuable service by pointing this out. I also noticed that the auto-tack feature wasn't particularly effective, but I hadn't realized that using it was shortening the life of my autopilot.

And I suggest again that a dedicated correctly sized circuit breaker is a good idea to protect both the autopilot and the wiring from over load.

Thanks

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2003 : 19:15:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Both you and the Raymarine technician have performed a valuable service by pointing this out...Thanks.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You're welcome, and that's what this forum is for.

I also thanked the technician for taking the time to let me know about this problem.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2003 : 20:23:17

Hmmm.. I seem to remember a rash of ST1000 failures from the old days when I used to hang out on the Venture discussion boards. Wonder if it was autotack related?

Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2003 : 21:29:59

Thank you VERY much!!!!I just installed that Auto pilot and got it working and reconciled it with the compass. My next step was going to be figuring out the tacking maneuver, now I am just going to forget about it. What a website!!Ron srsk Orion SW FL

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2003 : 21:31:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Hmmm.. I seem to remember a rash of ST1000 failures from the old days when I used to hang out on the Venture discussion boards. Wonder if it was autotack related?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well, although the AutoTack feature will cause the ram to reach its end limit making it squeal and groan, a number of other things will do it, too. Things like excessive weather helm, following seas, the autopilot being bumped off the tiller pin, changing course by more than 30 degrees, engaging autotrack(GPS)data while not pointing within 30 degrees of your waypoint,...and probably a few more that I haven't personally found yet.

The issue is that most of the latter reasons can be prevented, but in my experience, the AutoTack will cause the ram to max out every time just as if you pushed the +/-10 button ten times.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2003 : 22:08:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I just installed that Auto pilot and got it working and reconciled it with the compass. My next step was going to be figuring out the tacking maneuver, now I am just going to forget about it. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is what I do when tacking while using the autopilot...

1) With autopilot engaged, put a turn or two of the lazy jib sheet on the windward winch

2) Release the traveller

3) Uncleat, but hold the working jibsheet

4) Switch the autopilot to standby, and lift it from the tiller pin

5) Manually steer to the new course, then immediately set the autopilot on the pin and engage it

6) Release the now lazy jib sheet from the backwinded jib and sheet in the working jib sheet and trim

That's it in a nutshell and after you do it a couple of times, it becomes second nature and can be done quite quickly without losing too much headway.

Edited by - on

Charlie Vick
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
423 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2003 : 13:16:01

I don't own one but why would Raymarine keep AutoTack as a feature if they know this problem exists? Especially if its going to cost them money in warranty repaires and parts.

CVick
PanaceaII '81 C25 #2439 SRSK
Fort Smith, AR

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2003 : 14:36:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I don't own one but why would Raymarine keep AutoTack as a feature if they know this problem exists? Especially if its going to cost them money in warranty repaires and parts.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Good question.

The AutoTack feature probably works, but only if the tack can be completed lightning fast, like an America's Cup boat. This means the boat needs all the speed it can get, a fair amount of wind to move the bow quickly over to the new course, and a crack crew to execute the tack. Anything slower and the autopilot will indeed max out and overdrive before the tack is completed.

As I stated earlier, overdriving the ram can be done in several scenarios, but out of all of them, AutoTacking is probably the most common way to do it.

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2003 : 18:50:58

Good news for those with Navico/Simrad tiller-pilots:

This thread got me thinking because I occasionally use the auto-tack feature to quickly slow the boat when a fish strikes (a quick-and-dirty heave-to). The teck guy at Simrad said the T-100 (now T-10) has an end limit switch which temporarily disengages the motor "after 4 clicks" after the rod has reached the end of its throw. He said many boats are able to tack over quick enough that the end isn't reached (I don't ever recall hearing the clicks, but my attention is elsewhere when a fish hits) and that they do very few warranty repairs due to this problem.

Edited by - RichardG on 11/18/2003 18:52:06

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.