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First time double reefing the main 8-)

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azexploder
1st Mate

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USA
78 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/22/2003 : 23:13:56

I got 2/3 the way through the race today and started breaking sail slugs. When stuff starts to break, time to pack it up. I am home sewing lugs on as fast as I can to get back out Sunday.

Same forecast for tomorrow, 20-25 kts breeze and 30 gusts. Even with double reef, I was over 20 degrees constantly and 30 more than I liked. Found out I did not practice enough putting in and pulling out reefs, but I made up for that today. I had to give up the helm due to my crew was at 135lbs wet and I was 230, big difference on the rail.

Only 2 boats in the PHRF fleet finished out of 7 that showed up to play. At least I did not get a DNC/S
.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2003 : 08:04:15

Sounds like the double reef should have been put in before the dock lines were removed. I am not a racer but am curious did you roll in the Genoa at all? Sometimes maybe its best to visit mahogany ridge and talk about what might have been the days sailing adventure.
"Bear" on the hard in upstate N.Y.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2003 : 09:16:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Even with double reef, I was over 20 degrees constantly and 30 more than I liked. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If the boat is heeling excessively with a second reef, the boat was overpowered. Try reducing the size of your jib. The C-250 likes to sail upright. Heeling feels fast, but sailing upright is fast.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2003 : 11:36:13

Mike,

Sorry about the misfortune at a crucial time. This scenario has in fact been a topic of recent discussions so while unfortunate to you, serves as an illustration to those discussions. Metal reinforced slugs may avoid the breaks but unless identifying why the plastic slugs were over stressed, they may stress the sail.

Not familiar with your specific setup, my comments are generic. There are two potential problems involved. The first is that when setting the reef, the reef tack should be able to be drawn to the goose neck without any slugs binding and failing in the related stress and causing the domino effect. This can be accomplished by either a mast gate or reef slugs mounted on a jack line.

The second problem is in the dynamics of a single line reef. It may see the reef clew pulled aft whilst the reef tack is not set. This would suffer the strain of pull to be on the lower sail slugs rather than transmitted through the reef tack to the goosneck. Neither the slugs or the luff of the sail are designed to handle the stress of the pressures on the foot. Those pressures should be born exclusively by the reef tack and clew.

Some sail makers recommend double line reefing to ensure that the reef tack gets set properly first so that the reef clew when drawn down and aft is done so against the resistance of the reef tack and not the lower slugs. A single line reefing system, especially one done from the cockpit may result in an a reef which is incompletely set, meaning that the reef tack is not fully drawn to the goose neck with the result that the foot load is on the slugs rather than the reef tack. From the description of your day... this may identify your failure. If the failure occured some time after the 2nd reef was set... its very likely that the reef tack was not drawn down adequately. Setting the reef from the mast will usually avoid this. I abandoned the single line system on my first reef point after I discovered how easy and less problematic it was to get good reef sets on my 2nd reef which was double line.

While one of the other identified potential problems with slug failures and reefing is the use of a winch to draw the reef.... one other that I've not noted offered is the importance that the jiffy line be cleated 100% secure. If it were led through a clutch that slipped, the slack would yield itself (especially on the c250 because of the extra turning sheave on the mast) at the reef tack thus having the effect of placing the foot load on the lower slugs. This is the reason why many old salts never suggest any cleat other than a horn be used on reef lines.

Identifying which problem caused the failures may not be possible so it might be easier to just address the whole reefing scheme. I certainly think the blame shouldn't be put on plastic slugs whilst ignoring potential reefing problems.

I agree with Steve, there was likely too much headsail left up. Knowing however that your 2nd reef was added, it could be a deep or shallow 2nd. In my opinion, the 2nd on the 250 should be a deep reef. This was also the suggestion of Ulman sails who installed it.

I don't suffer heeling issues under double reef main but am overpowered while off wind in 25-30 mph winds and suffering a significant quartering seas. I attribute the problem to the impacting of the swell to the large rudder. If failed to be vaned when the swell rolls under, two things happen... the impact spins the boat and the rudder stalls, and a possible broach results.

Weathering however doesn't present problems, the boat sails well under double reef main and will tack like a witch, very quickly and smartly. The only heeling issues under double reefed main are whilst suffering a broach.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 11/23/2003 12:14:06

azexploder
1st Mate

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USA
78 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2003 : 22:07:40

The lake was dark all morning today, even though there was not a cloud in the sky. The very sheltered marina's wind station indicated 25-30 with 36kt gusts, almost identical to Saturday.

Saturday I left the dock with the second reef in the corkscrew fitting at the gooseneck and the sail neetly tied up. Four minutes before the start, the wind absolutly died all the way up lake. Since we where racing, I figured now was the time to shake out #2 and run with just one reef and the 110%. One minute before the start, I was on the fordeck dancing with the halyard/topping lift/reef cringle again puting #2 back in.

I think the slugs snapped off due their age and sideways pressure that the beam reach/run exerted on them. The ones that went where at the battens. I did not have to flog the main upwind, we just pinched hard with zero jib. I have the long blade rudder and heeling at 25-30 in the gusts was fine.

Down wind was the tough part. The boat felt like she was on ice, slipping back and forth in the short swells. The whole time upwind we where saying "downwind will be great - time to relax" But no, it was more work.

Lake Havasu London Bridge Regatta Friday and Saturday. Should be back to drifting and 75 degrees, more my speed 8^)

Edited by - on

mday
Navigator

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197 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2003 : 13:38:13

Out here in AZ, the plastic sail slugs tend to get brittle from constant exposure to the sun and heat -- I've had them pop on me frequently and always carry some shackles and spare slugs to put in a temporary fix on one of the grommets until I can sew a new slug in. I've also tried using the metal bail slugs, but I find these tend to bind up in the slot on the mast more than the plastic ones.

As you can gather from Mike's comments, we've been getting some good wind here in the Arizona sailing season.

Back to the reefing: I'm experimenting with the reefing hook pictured by Bill Bosworth (sp ?) back in May. I've found it difficult to get the grommets on the hook with the sail bunching up in the area. It's even more difficult to get it off once it's on! I like the reefing system to work very smoothly because things are usually getting tense when you need to reef. Has anyone else been using this hook? What's your experience?

Thanks, Max

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