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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Why a C-250?

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Bob Vick
Deckhand

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USA
9 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/24/2003 : 01:04:57

I have been debating on getting a C-25 or a C-250 for lake sailing & maybe a trip to the Gulf of Texas on occasion. I regularly fly by the H-260’s on our lake thought the PHRF numbers are better than the C-250/25’s. I have no fear in taking my C-22 to the limit, I have found it impossible to knock down & exceed hull speed regularly especially in 30 mph winds.

My inclination is the older boats C-25’s might be better for heavy weather sailing. While the newer C-250’s might be better at light winds? I am only considering wing keels, though might risk a fin if it was a good deal.

I have glassed in all of the thru hulls on my C-22 & will not consider water ballast; I just do not want to deal with water/leaks inside the boat.

A trip to look at 25 to 26 sailboats found water in the bilges of 10 or so boats, are your boats dry like my little C-22?

Why did you choose your boat over a Hunter or other brand & do you beat them.

Any time two sailboats are on a lake there is a race, weather the other party knows it or not!

Bob Vick
Caldwell, TX
C 22 #13059 "Over Keel"

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 08:37:42

Bob,

I hear in your question, that your pretty happy with your boat but may be trying to discover some esoteric reason that you may be missing something between your C22 and three feet larger boat.

The greatest differences between the C22 and C25/250 is big boat feel and space. They are not a better boat... just have some different offerings for different needs. Indentifying the need is as important as the boat to fill it.

A great many c25/250 owners have previously owned a C22... including myself. I moved up because I wanted a coastal cruising platform. The C22 wasn't capable in the following ways.
<ul><li>The trailer with no brakes and single axle, wasn't up to long hauls </li><li> the boat didn't have the space requirements to provide for several weeks of cruising </li><li>it wasn't conducive to providing the support systems for that kind of cruising, fresh water, marine head etc. </li><li>I didn't think it was safe enough, it was an '83 model and didn't have the seperate fuel locker and had no life lines </li></ul>

So, a change was necessary... to what? A criteria was to stay within the pulling ability of a standard half ton pickup. This was decided because I expected to keep the boat for twenty years and haul it every year to the Great Lakes from Texas but didn't have a need otherwise for larger than a half ton pickup. I also didn't want launching and retrieving hassels,if possible something as easy to launch as the C22. Also wanted was something that would serve as a camper on the road. The open transom and swim ladder serve both that purpose as well as provided for the daily bath while cruising because its easy to get back aboard.

Take a sheet of paper... write your wants in a boat. Then highlight the ones that seem like necessities. Then find a boat that provides those. The effort should point to the right boat. It may even suggest that your current boat continues to fit your needs.

Now your questions. The 250 has a dry bilge. Your analysis between the c25 and 250 regarding performance is on target.

Regarding racing. If PHRF racing is suitable to you, then your not restricted in your search. If one design has been enjoyed... to go away from the C22 would place you in a world of greatly diminshing one design racing. In our area, there a great many who own a c22 for one reason... it provides one design racing. If I were to return to racing... I honestly wouldn't waste a minute playing games with the local bunch who race PHRF. Constraining myself, let me just say that the bunch who race one design C22's are the ones having the most fun.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 11/24/2003 16:04:34

Steve leBlanc
Deckhand

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USA
21 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2003 : 10:56:32

I currently have a Mac M25. Which below deck looks a bit like the older C25's, broken up space due to all the bulkheads. IMHO the C-250, gives a more open, lighted impression below along with what looks like a larger cockpit, I did say look I am not really sure of the actual size difference is. The walk through hull seems to have an easier access to getting in and out of the water instead of having to climb over the transum and push pit. So to me the C250 has a much nicer layout. But I think all boats that are getting built now have a more open lighted look in the cabin and it may be due to the families that are purchasing them and what these people want.

The big plus for me on the C250, The wife stated she liked it and told me to get a price

. I don't have to ask for forgiveness or permission now. As for us, we have settled in the Wing keel model

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2003 : 19:06:32

Bob

Here is a thread that might answer some of your questions.

http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4879

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Bob Vick
Deckhand

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USA
9 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2003 : 00:24:53

Arlyn & Bryan,

Thank you for your replies you seem to be the experts of the C-250’s debate.

Can you all beat the old C-25’s & can you take out a H-260?

We have 2 - H-260’s on our lake I can beat some times on my C-22. They only fly 110 jibs & spank with the main.

I am very competitive & would hate to beg 5 seconds a mile from a H boat.

I was about 80% on going with the older boats until your post, Catalina might owe you all a commission.

Bob Vick
Caldwell, TX
C 22 #13059 "Over Keel"

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2003 : 01:41:44

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Can you all beat the old C-25’s & can you take out a H-260?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

A well-prepared and well-sailed tall rig fixed keel c25 is a little faster than the c250wk. The standard rig c25 is fairly equal to windward. The C250wk is faster off the wind. The C250 wing keel seems to be faster than the C250 water ballast. In a 7-race regatta this spring we beat a well-sailed J22 boat for boat 2 times and he was flying a spinnaker.

I have never sailed against a Hunter 260. There is only one at our marina. I would think a well-prepared and well-sailed wing keel with a 135 headsail should be faster than a H260 especially off the wind.

Here are some nice words about my c250's performance at this year’s Nationals. Steve Milby was the only boat that beat us boat for boat regularly.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The Racing Ability of the C-250
by Steve Milby "Captiva Wind", C-25 T/F #2554

Bryan Beamer wowed everyone with his C-250. In three of the four races on Saturday, Bryan’s was the second boat to cross the finish line out of all the boats racing, and he consistently dogged the leader all around the racecourse. On average, the first boats across the finish line (C-25s) on Saturday only beat him by about 1 1/2 minutes per race. In some races he finished much closer. (I don’t have the finishing times for the race on Sunday.) To those who have doubted the racing ability of the C-250, Bryan indisputably proved that a well-prepared and well-sailed C-250 can compete with and even beat tall and standard rig C-25s.

Bryan flew a 135% roller-furling headsail, and had a fresh coat of VC 17 bottom paint on the boat. His crew included his father, who is an outstanding racer, but who hasn’t raced much in recent years. Bryan also has not raced much recently, but he describes himself as a youngster as a “dock rat,” crewing for any racer who would let him. He obviously inherited his dad’s ability. I know about Bryan’s sailing background, because he and his dad raced at Brookville Lake in southern Indiana until the early 1980s, and his dad beat the socks off me the first time I ever raced, and many times afterward. As most of you know, Bryan now lives and sails with his family in Colorado, and coming to the Nationals was a long haul for him. With his performance, Bryan made all the rest of us respect the C-250.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Edited by - on

Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2003 : 23:18:14

I traded up to a C-250wk from a C-22 named Desiderta I had for five years. It was an easy decision. For three more feet it has twice the room. And I was tired of finding water in the bilge of the 22. My wing keel is dry as a bone for three years. I also like storm sailing. I took Desi offshore in twenty-five knot winds and eight foot seas and she did great. 'Chick-a-pea' has been out in thirty knot winds and though there is a lot of windage on the hull I was still able to sail her. Most of the time I solo.
I find the deck easy to move around on. When I go forward I can make it between the shrouds and the mast where it is safer. And the stern pulpit seats are ideal for non-crewing guests. I could easily board with my scuba tank on my back using the stern ladder and cut away transom. And I don't miss having a spring loaded motor bracket at all. And the pop top is quite easy to operate and has more head room with the canvas package snapped on.

I've had no trouble keeping up with C-27 and even a C-30 on occasion.
But last April I did trailer her to Homestead, FL with my two brothers to sail to Bimini along with the Trailer Sailor BBS. With three on board and two of us with scuba gear, a rubber raft, and off shore fishing gear and a large cooler athawrt ship in the cabin, groceries, etc., we had enough room to cook, sleep and relax. I of course being the captain took the aft berth :-) Here is a link to the web site where you can find pictures and transcripts about the trip.

[url="http://groups.msn.com/BahamasFlotilla2003/shoebox.msnw"]Bahamas Flotilla[/url]

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