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Why a C-25?

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Bob Vick
Deckhand

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USA
9 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/24/2003 : 01:08:02

I have been debating on getting a C-25 or a C-250 for lake sailing & maybe a trip to the Gulf of Texas on occasion. I regularly fly by the H-260’s on our lake thought the PHRF numbers are better than the C-250/25’s. I have no fear in taking my C-22 to the limit, I have found it impossible to knock down & exceed hull speed regularly especially in 30 mph winds.

My inclination is the older boats C-25’s might be better for heavy weather sailing. While the newer C-250’s might be better at light winds? I am only considering wing keels, though might risk a fin if it was a good deal.

I have glassed in all of the thru hulls on my C-22 & will not consider water ballast; I just do not want to deal with water/leaks inside the boat.

A trip to look at 25 to 26 sailboats found water in the bilges of 10 or so boats, are your boats dry like my little C-22?

Why did you choose your boat over a Hunter or other brand & do you beat them.

Any time two sailboats are on a lake there is a race, weather the other party knows it or not!

Bob Vick
Caldwell, TX
C 22 #13059 "Over Keel"

Edited by - on

SailormanCGA72
1st Mate

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77 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 08:32:54

I chose the C25 for a couple of reasons. At the time I was still in the Coast Guard and subject to moving every couple of years. The trailerability of the C25 was a major selling point. The second reason was based on the seaworthiness of the plucky little C22s that we sailed in Panama. They are almost impossible to knock down. I found the same in my C25. Mine will always round up before getting into any danger of a knockdown. I converted mine from a swing to a wing and have never looked back. Racing is not something I do since we are almost always the lone sailboat on the lake.
My wife has looked a little enviously at the 250s and the Hunters with the steps in the stern but both of us like the zero boat payments we now have compared with buying a new boat.

In summary, the C25 is trailerable, tough, and sails well enough for a plodder like me.

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 08:39:31

Hi Bob:

The classic lines of the C25 appeal to me personally much more than the C250 or new Hunters and can be had for a much more reasonable cost. With regards to light wind performance, my tall rig is great, but I've never compared it with a C250.

I've sailed on a friend's C22 and they are a great little boat. I think you'll find with the higher freeboard of the C25 (with respect to the C22), it'll be a drier boat. I've never had the first bit a water in my bilge.

I also prefer the fin keel for the added performance. But I sail on a deep water lake, with steep banks and well marked shoals, so a wing keel is not such a big advantage for me.

Edited by - on

ppetracca
Navigator

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USA
163 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 08:41:42

Bob,

I can only offer my opinions. My first boat was also a C-22 (she's still in the driveway at the house). We selected the C-25 for a number of reasons.

1. We outgrew our '22 when our sons began growing in direct proportion to the amount of food eaten.

2. We have always like the lines of Catalina's and the dockside appeal. We looked at 250's also, but did not care for the look of it. The wide cabin top and taller freeboard did not have that classic Catalina appearance in our opinion.

3. We opted for the fin keel. After years of sailing a swing keel, we decided we wanted a little more stable platform. The 25 is able to get just a little closer to the wind. Our 22's swing would occcasionally rock back and forth in heavy winds. We did like being able to crank it up when it met the bottom of the lake on a few occasions.

4. Finally, I found our '25 in Lake Palestine, TX. The PO had it delivered there in 1985 to his slip in his backyard. He had not had it out of the water in 8 years when we pulled it out October '02. Although the bottom was shot, blisters and completely saturated with water, when I pulled up the boards in the cabin floor there was dust in the bilge above the keel. No water had intruded at all either from below or above in the rains of Texas. The boat is very very tight. My only problem came when I brought it to NM and it started drying out. The seals at the through hull fittings gave out and had to be replaced.
It has been in the water since April with its new bottom and is still as dry as can be.

The only offering I can give on differences with H-260's and my '25 is that the 260 is much faster down wind. I routinely race with a 260 water ballast and I can not keep up down wind. However, his boat does not point well and the gap is always made up to windward. Also, I routinely let him pass me down wind, then cover him with my spinnaker so I at least stay with him.

Hope some of this helps...just opinions formed from my own exeriences.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 10:22:26

IMHO follows...

Primarily Daysailing? Or Cruising ? Sea of Cortez in your plans?

I think the more 'traditional' cabin layout of the C25 is more amicable to extended cruising than the 'open' plan of the C250, which seems to be more focused on daysailing and entertaining. Cruisers like lots of 'nooks and crannies' for storage, and having an 'open' design is not as safe or comfortable in a sea-way. (having stuff to brace yourself on is handy)

As noted, the wing keel is the hot setup... but the earlier swingers can be converted. If you're 'mechanically competent' and have a good place to lift the boat, you can do it yourself for about $2K. If you have to use a boatyard and hire the work done, double that amount.

The alternative is to look for a good C25 wing in 'ready to go' condition. Those boats (as expected) command a premium in the marketplace.

Later C25 hulls have more headroom inside and a better lazarette design but the earlier ones really work just fine too. The lazarette can be modified with a bit of plywood, some epoxy and some imagination.

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

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USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 14:24:37

IMHO,

Both models are nice. The older boats have more of a traditional look. The new model has more interior space and that really nice swim platform.

I would get the wing if it were a newer model. A fin or wing for the older model. If you find a great deal on a swinger, you could have it modified to a wing.

This forum is another good reason to have a Catalina. It is nice to have such a huge support network for tech stuff, general good times and information.

And tons of opinions!!

PW
Dingy with a Dinghy

Edited by - pwhallon on 11/24/2003 14:30:02

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 14:55:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bob Vick
 I have been debating on getting a C-25 or a C-250 for lake sailing & maybe a trip to the Gulf of Texas on occasion......Why did you choose your boat...?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I chose my fully equipped, excellent looking, fin keel C25 because it only cost me approximately what others have paid for a new 4-stroke 10hp outboard!

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5904 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 15:43:11

As between the fin and wing keel C-25, the fin is slightly faster and points slightly higher. If depth of draft is not a significant issue, the fin keel is preferable. The C25 is very well-behaved. It doesn't surprise you with sudden, unexpected round-ups or similar actions. It's a heavy boat, and it has a very secure feeling. The C-250 is more easily trailerable than the C-25, has a more modern rig, and is fun to sail.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 16:34:12

I am a lake sailor. Any old boat needs work. My boat cost me $7k on a trailer and I will have $12k in it by spring. That is a lot less that a new 250, but... I would rather have had a 250 wing and been spending all of my money on new fun add ons instead of at least half my money on repairs and replacements. Financing on a new boat is very reasonable. If trailering means so much to you that it determines the boat you buy then it means enough to you to determine the tow vehicle you buy. Get what you want, tow it with what it takes. No one needs to buy a new tow vehicle, the world is full of ugly trucks look'n fer a home.

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

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USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 16:37:44

I've owned 2 hunters before the c25. i have noticed some structural improvements in the catalina over the hunter. Also, i used to belong to a hunter message board and there was a rediculous abount of posts about chainplate problems and leaks.
however, the mid 80's hunter 25.5 is huge down below. i almost bought one for the cabin space.
Personally i think the c25 just looks like the perfect boat.

Edited by - on

seads
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 16:50:21

I love putting in my 2 cents even though I'm not convinced that I ever say anything useful, but here goes nothing:

My Catalina 25 is my first sailboat (I finally came to my senses and forsook the evil world of powerboats...but that's another story entirely).

We sail in Charleston Harbor, SC which, while not San Franciso Bay, can provide for some high seas at times, especially near the harbor entrance and out into the Atlantic. I have been VERY pleasantly surprised at the stability and seaworthiness of our boat and feel that it gives us a high safety margin for any unexpected weather.

Maybe that doesn't matter much for lake sailing, but it would certainly give you more flexibility if you wanted to trailer anywhere less forgiving.

And to echo the sentiment above, our 1982 model year boat, which is a former lake boat and in excellent condition, cost about as much as some of my marina neighbors pay for a new UK/North headsail (probably less!)!

Edited by - seads on 11/24/2003 16:54:00

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 17:13:26

an 89 wing tall rig would be a great boat for you! You can find one for about $10K.

I have a 1978 C25 fin and it is a great little boat. Hull is bone dry but I am working on a leaking window. $5000 will buy a great, older, C25.

The C25 is mainly driven by the headsail (I have a 110, 135, 155, and 0.5 oz spinnaker) and the C250 is mainly driven by the main. It's unusual to have a large headsail on the 250.

The C25/250 fleet is a cruiser/racer. I can fit my family of 4 onboard for a week, or hoist the big genny and race. But it's not a J24.

There's a Hunter 260 on our dock and it is HUGE. I think it would be a great cruising boat if you took care and didn't push it to the design limits (don't trust that rig with no backstay). But at $45K you could by an 89 wing tall rig and mylar sails, fix everything to better than new, and still be ahead.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 17:37:58

Why a C25?? Easy:-
1. It looks great even sitting in its slip.
2. It's a very forgiving boat to sail
3. It's almost the perfect racer/cruiser - easily exceeds its numbers if well prepared.
4. Doesn't cost an arm & a leg
5. Has enough room to be a family weekender.
Derek

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 23:31:12

The C25 is my first sailboat in many years. It has just completed its sixth season. I would buy it again:
1) there are lots of them around, they are a greaat deal for the money;
2) it is a great light air (ie. summer) boat, and manageable in all but the heaviest air;
3) parts and advice is readily available, so it makes a great first boat, because it is a great DIY boat;
4) if you don't have lots of spare cash lying around, it is not an intimidating boat to own.

I also like the Bristol 24 and the Pearson 26, but they are older (60's and 70's) boats, are less well finished below deacks, and most will need substantial work. If you cruise frequently in heavy weather, the Bristol is a great boat (less room down below than a C25, but a full keel Herreshoff design that will take punishment.

Before you buy a Hunter, read up on them in past issues of Practical Sailor. I think the term they used was "made to sell for a price", or something equally damning.

Edited by - on

jsummerfield
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2003 : 21:44:33

I do not know the Catalina 250 well. I $aw a 250 in a boat $tore on the I-610 $outh loop. It $eemed much lighter than a Catalina 25.

I $ee in Mapque$t that there are two Caldwell, Texa$. If you are near College $tation you are welcome to vi$it our Catalina 25. I $ail on Galve$ton Bay. I $ailed larger boat$ before I bought the Catalina 25. I would prefer a 30-foot boat, $elf-tailing winche$, perhap$ roller furling head$ail, perhap$ Die$el. However, both the cabin and cockpit $pace on a Catalina 25 $eem large enough in compari$on for day $ailing. $ome modification$ are required for night-time comfort. One rea$on ri$e$ above all other$ regarding my $election of the Catalina 25 over a comparable 30-foot boat a$ de$cribed.

My Catalina 25 i$ a fixed keel and the bilge i$ dry. An electric bilge pump i$ among my modification$. $ometime$ I run a ho$e into the cabin and pump it out to run the pump.

I have not cooked in the boat and would want to replace the alcohol $tove fir$t. However, I have con$idered a $110 microwave for u$e at the dock.

Edited by - on

mtiffee
1st Mate

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USA
57 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2003 : 23:30:58

I have an 89 wing keel tall rig for sale... look in the swap meet.

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2003 : 08:54:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">One rea$on ri$e$ above all other$ regarding my $election of the Catalina 25 over a comparable 30-foot boat a$ de$cribed.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hmmmm... would the reason have anything to do with the $?

Edited by - on

Charlie Vick
Captain

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USA
423 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2003 : 13:43:39

Bob,
One of the best reasons for getting a C25/250 is right here in front of you, this association. Anything you ever wanted or needed to know about either sailboat can be found within these forums. If its not, just ask and I guarantee you'll get not one but several solutions to your problem. The members are friendly, helpful and even somewhat humorous at times.

The important thing beyond the boats is our love for sailing, so even if you decide on another brand (heaven forbid!) I hope you would feel free to visit us here to enjoy the comradery and fellowship we all enjoy just being sailors.

CVick
PanaceaII '81 C25 #2439 SRSK
Fort Smith, AR

Edited by - Charlie Vick on 11/26/2003 14:22:28

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2003 : 15:27:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mtiffee
 I have an 89 wing keel tall rig for sale... look in the swap meet.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
We all know your boat rocks, but your pictures make it look sterile when most 25's look homey. Maybe you should put a few teak accents in the boat, leave some nautical paraphernalia laying around and shoot some new snaps. Just a thought.

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 11/28/2003 : 23:30:14

I spent 5 weeks living aboard Nin Bimash II last summer, and sailed her more than 500 N Miles while cruising the North Channel. I chose the c25 because it was larger yet similar to my C22 which I had sailed for the previous 6 years. Well designed and easy to sail. The older models are very tough boats. The Hull layup is around 3/4 in. I enjoy the traditional lines of the C25, I have looked at many hunters and test sailed an Oday 25 among others and found the compromises made in form in favor of interior space disturbing to my familial nautical herritage. The boat is made in large enough numbers for there to be a healthy after market for parts and up grades. While many enjoy day sailing and an occaisional weekend, and that's great, when I go, I go. I love being on my boat especially living on board for long periods. Every one who sees her admires her teak and the many improvements made below. Other C25 owners I meet have a similar glow about their boats. I do not find that in the owners of other vessels. Others are always it seems on their way from one boat to the next. But the C25 seems to caprivate a particular type of sailor, an independent, creative individual. Every C25 owner I have met has become a friend. So in buying a C25 you are not just buying a small yacht but entering a fellowship of like minded sailors who are passionate about their boats, and will often spend more than the boat is likely to bring in a sale in order to have her "just right"

Don't mind a little water in the bilge, mine was wet for the entire cruise but I only had to run the pump once, and that after sailing through heavy seas for the better part of a day. Good luck Bob I hope you choose the C25.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2003 : 10:46:10

John V.
I wish you posted more often. You write really well. What and where do you teach?

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2003 : 11:00:52

"But the C25 seems to caprivate a particular type of sailor, an independent, creative individual..."

Indeed! (grins) I see that our hulls are nearly sisterships (153 and 158)

One of the reasons I bought mine is because I saw it as a base from which to build the mini-cruiser I wanted. I loved the lines of my little V23 dearly, but it just didn't have the room or the substantial construction I needed to 'build on'.

My C25 remains a 'work in progress' but there's not many other things I'd rather be doing than 'simply messing around in boats'.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2003 : 12:49:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
My C25 remains a 'work in progress' but there's not many other things I'd rather be doing than 'simply messing around in boats'.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ahhh, "messing around in boats". An immortal piece of writing, that. As winter sets in, with it's dark, wet, cold and gloomy weather, I have a recommendation for everyone: Take an hour off, some evening during these last three weeks before Christmas, pull your copy of "The Wind in the Willows" off of the bookshelf (or boot it up on your computer), and open to Chapter 5 - "Dulce Domum". Read this chapter, slowly. Savor it. Merry Christmas, all!

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2003 : 14:13:04

Well, it's a rainy day here in the Pacific NW, so let's toss out the rest of what Ratty had to say about 'messing about in boats'. It's most appropriate.

"In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it.

Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not".

Edited by - on

cch
Navigator

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202 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2003 : 14:33:25

I agree with so much of what John had to say. John, thank you for putting it so nicely.

After 8 years owning my boat I was faced with doing serious work on her or looking for another boat. I knew right away I would do the repairs and keep her. I have come to both love and trust this boat. The hulls do seem to be strong and well made.

During our recent swing to wing conversion I spent considerable time at the boatyard. As I chose to fair the new keel to the hull myself, and lacking experience it took a fairly long time. My work schedule only allowed me to work on the boat evenings and weekends when the yard was closed. The security man and resident hull repairman and I became friends and they allowed me to work late. "Hoosier" who has worked on boats his entire life views boats only as hulls with all the "extra stuff" just bolted on for show. After days of studying my hull #2126 he felt it was very well made and said it would be a shame to let it get away. He told me several times "they don't make hulls like this anymore" His job is to prepare brand new very expensive boats for delivery. I was amazed at what needs to be done to new boats before delivery (especially on weekends when the yard is closed and the public is not allowed to be in)

I prefer my trusty old C25 over a new boat.

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2003 : 00:51:49

Frank

By chance and without solicitation on my part, John Gisondi who edits
the C25 section of Mainsheet invited me to write a piece for the fall issue. Because of the size of my submission it is scheduled for publication in the February Issue. I wrote about cruising the North Channel with my 9 year old daughter Grace. She had been cruising with me since she was 6. I'm glad you enjoy my writing. I am the music director at St. Vincent School in Mount Vernon Ohio where I teach K-8 general music direct a choir,several musicals, serve as the ski club advisor and the rocket club advisor. Most of my students know when I get a far off look that I am probably mind sailing. I came to music education after retiring from a career in Opera. I have sailed all my life and my C25 Nin Bimash II is my 8th sailboat. she is a 77 sk/sr hull #153. And after this winter's mods she will be my perfect vessel.

Edited by - John V. on 11/30/2003 00:53:14

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