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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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WIRE NUT TELTAILS

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Billyboy
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/01/2003 : 11:25:30

When I peaked back through the rear starboard quarter birth and did see
wire nuts connecting my Yamaha 9.9 charging circuit in a path directly to my single 12 v. battery, the question begs "good enough?" On the hit parade of things to do better, does or should this circuit deserve better? A fuse, an isolation diode?
What say you?

Thanks,

billyboy

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2003 : 12:49:12

I don't know much about the Yamaha but I would think a diode and fuse should already be in the circuit on the engine. Do you have a manual for it ? If so have a look at the charging circuit diagram.

I recomend you replace the wire nuts with Quick Disconects.

Edited by - Douglas on 12/01/2003 12:56:43

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2003 : 13:17:33

Billyboy,

I'm fairly certain there's a fuse in the positive leg of the charging circuit under the engine cowl, probably near the starter solinoid if you have one, otherwise maybe near the ignition black box. All alternators are equipped with diodes which prevent the battery from discharging through the alternator.

Wire nuts have no place aboard a boat except as an emergency jury rig. I'd suggest crimped connectors as a minimum. I use crimp, solder, heatshrink myself. For attaching your alternator charging circuit leads to your battery, I would suggest screw terminals. The screw terminals make it simple and easy to remove and install the engine without damaging the wiring.

If you have the electric start model, I'd add an emergency cut off switch or circuit breaker in the positive engine lead to the cranking battery. This switch provides a quick and convenient means of isolating the battery from the motor. It can help prevent unautorized cranking, and allows you to quickly shut off the starter if the solenoid contacts ever stick, or the cranking leads short out for any reason. I used a high current key switch mounted in a convenient but not too obvious location a short lead length from the battery.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2003 : 19:44:03

Wire nut connections in a marine environment will allow corrosion between the conductors resulting in high resistance splices, heating, and voltage drop across the circuit. Crimped barrel connectors which are pre filled with electrical splicing compound are probably your best bet since dry crimped barrel splices also allow corrosion although it's hidden from view. Heat shrink tubing should be applied over the splices as well. When properly done, crimped barrel splices survive in wet, or even totally submerged, utility manholes for decades, even in high voltage applications.

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1774 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2003 : 10:14:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by oldsalt
 Wire nut connections in a marine environment will allow corrosion between the conductors resulting in high resistance splices, heating, and voltage drop across the circuit. Crimped barrel connectors which are pre filled with electrical splicing compound are probably your best bet since dry crimped barrel splices also allow corrosion although it's hidden from view. Heat shrink tubing should be applied over the splices as well. When properly done, crimped barrel splices survive in wet, or even totally submerged, utility manholes for decades, even in high voltage applications.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi Mark & Leon,

'Sorry ... I'm electrically challenged ... do either of you have a photo or diagram of what these "crimped barrel splices" look like? What is the difference between these and the "quick disconnects" that Douglas mentioned?

Thanks!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2003 : 12:26:54

Billy... I don't have any pics, but I mounted two screw terminals (#489872 in the post below) to the side of the cockpit footwell at the back of the quarterberth, and crimped O-connectors (which the motor leads already had) to a very heavy gauge cable running to an on-off battery switch (on the positive wire) that I mounted in the fiberglass below the galley sink. There I can reach it from the companionway but it's not visible from above. The cable runs from there to the battery. Simple, safe, and efficient. If I had two batteries, the switch would be an Off-1-2-Both switch, but I don't.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/02/2003 14:16:37

Earl Landers
Navigator

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USA
157 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2003 : 12:48:26

Buzz,
For you viewing pleasure, a "Crimped Connector"

Followed by some "Quick Disconnects"

More permanaent disconnects

I use Leon's method <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I use crimp, solder, heatshrink myself.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2003 : 10:13:17

Hey Billy,

In addition to the great advice already posted, here is a link to the tech tips section that shows the bulkhead aft of the galley in Snickerdoodle. You can clearly see the "on/off" switch that I have installed in the positive side of the electric start circuit. It's easy to switch this off when I'm closing up the boat and thereby disengage the electric start on the engine.

http://www.catalina25-250.org/tech/tech25/tt024.html

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2003 : 11:03:10

As usual, I agree with Leon, with one exception: after years of crimping, soldering, and shrinking, I read a learned article somewhere (cant find it) which stated that crimped terminals were better than crimped AND soldered terminals because the soldered portion created the prospect of fracture whilst the crimped only portion, when properly shrinked, lasted longer. I think it was Practical Sailor, but not sure, might have been one of the many 12-volt books. Since then I have dispensed with the solder. I have a pal who is such a skilled solderer that he solders all his bulbs in place etc etc but most of us are not mil-spec guys, God bless, ron srsk #2343 Orion SW FL

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2003 : 23:15:28

Soldering vs. Crimping Only

Re: "As usual, I agree with Leon,..." Thank you!

Re: "... the soldered portion created the prospect of fracture ..."

Any sudden transition in stiffness can create a stress concentration. That includes the point in the stranded wire where the solder stopped wicking away from the joint. One of the functions of the heat shrink tube, in addition to electrically insulating the joint and protecting it from corrosion, is to reinforce that transition from solder soaked wire to unsoldered strands. This means that it's important not to scrimp on the length of the heat shrink. Sometimes I even use two layers, one piece longer than the other. And by the way, the point in a crimp-only joint where the wire emerges from the grip of the crimped copper is a stress concentration too. That's why it's important to properly compress the hard plastic insulation grip onto the wire insulation -- to provide support on the other side of the point where the stranded conductor emerges from the crimped metal. The goo filled crimp connectors do an even better job of this, as well as preventing atmospheric corrosion.

Re: "I have a pal who is such a skilled solderer ... but most of us are not mil-spec guys"

Yeah, that's a good point that I tend to blow right past like it didn't exist. In my experience, it takes a lot more training and practice to make consistently good solder joints than it takes to make consistent crimps with reasonably good tools.

I'm not literally mil-spec qualified, but I was until recently NASA certified for both solder and crimp electrical connections on space flight hardware (as well as multi-layer circuit board assembly and repair). Even working on my boat I use a temperature controlled soldering station, eutectic solder, and activated rosin supplemental flux. I then wash away all traces of flux from the cooled joint using straight alcohol and cotton swabs before I apply the heat shrink. When in doubt, I work under magnification. But then, that's me.

Don't anyone feel like their boat isn't safe and reliable just because they didn't do something the same way I did. I have been a fanatic about quality workmanship ever since my professional motorcycle days, and 15 years in the space business only made me crazier.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

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