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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Hurricane Isabel lives on! Repair woes...

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Kirk McKay
Navigator

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USA
111 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/03/2003 : 11:41:41

Greetings!

I thought I'd post an update to my hurricane damage story to see if anybody has any thoughts on what will happen next. Basically I thought I had only some cosmetic damage and some missing items on the Masthead (light, windex, antenna.) The insurance company had visited the boat fairly quickly at my Marina (Herrington Harbour North) and cut me a check for roughly $3000 for what they saw as reasonable repairs. That didn't include the Masthead items as it had already been replaced (man that rigging guy works fast!) They promptly paid for that as well (not quite all of it, but pretty close.)
Most of my damage came as a result of a beating inflicted on me from the boat in the next slip. It seems as though it got pretty loose and was hitting my boat on the port side, inflicting what can mostly be described as chips in the deck above the rub rail. There was also some damage to the rub rail itself and would need to be replaced.
Now enter the Composite Shop at my Marina. We have finally hooked up and they gave me a 5 page estimate with a total of over $7600.00 and that doesn't include any yard charges such as de-masting... This bill alone would be more than my '82 is worth to me (and my insurance company!) I have forwarded the estimate to them and the ball is now in their court. Does anybody have any idea what will likely happen? I would think that the shop would realize that their estimate is higher than the worth of the boat? I'm sure if they did the job, it would look great, but let's face it, my boat isn't exactly something you'd see for sale in the back of a Sailing magazine!

Kirk

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2003 : 12:38:58

My guess is the insurance company will total the boat and give you a check for what they think it is worth .Of course they will subtract the money they already gave you.

Like in the C25 boat that rolled on the highway they may let you keep the boat to do as you see fit. Either way I don’t think you will get enough money to cover the cost of damage.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2003 : 13:22:58

Kirk,

I agree with the way Bryan Beamer said it will shake out. I'd take the money and the boat, and do the repairs myself, but that's just me. Remember, like you said, if you're not trying to restore a show quality boat, there's a lot more leeway in your cosmetic finish standards.

By the way, my boat was damaged in a hurricane before I bought it. (Mostly cosmetic, with a few shoddy repair attempts thrown in.) I patched it up well enough that the history of damage never even enters my mind as I'm out there enjoying my boat.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2003 : 21:04:43

Kirk, I also got a pretty healthy estimate (around $6,000) from the composite shop at HHN. My insurance sent me a check to cover it (less deductible).
A guy at McCauley Boat Works recommended another fiberglass guy and gave me his card. He was slow in returning my call and I was probably impatient, so I contacted Osprey Composits at the marina. This other guy is John "Eddie" Bradburn 410-535-5395 or 410-231-4043 (cell). I was told he used to work at Osprey and then went and started his own business. I suspect he comes to your boat instead of the other way around. You might want to see what he'd charge. I suspect he has much lower overhead, but might be more restricted by the weather. Good luck with the repairs. At least we don't have to worry about getting that first scratch!

Edited by - Bubba on 12/04/2003 21:05:22

deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2003 : 23:19:40

Another thing to enter into the equation: it would be a good idea to find out how the claim will affect your premium the next few years. My experience of insurance companies the past few years is that whenever you make a claim against your policy, they simply jack up the premium by 400% or so to make back whatever they paid you in the first place.

Did you know that if you are involved in an accident and you recover damages from the party responsible, your health insurance company can take as much of the settlement as it wants to pay for your medical bills (even though they insured you for medical treatment in the first place)?

You may find you are better off simply repairing the boat yourself and not dealing with the insurance company at all.

Just a thought...

Edited by - on

Kirk McKay
Navigator

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USA
111 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2003 : 09:23:38

Here’s the latest from the Insurance folks:

They accepted the Composites estimate (which is more than the boat is insured for) and they have totaled my boat. When they total a boat they don’t subtract the deductible so they will send me a final check minus the amount they have already sent me. Now since they don’t really want another boat (it seems they have quite a few already) so they sold the boat back for $500.00. Of course they also said they will now cancel my policy. He also said that they don’t really want to lose a client, so I should call an underwriter and see what I would have to do to get a new policy. They would first need to make sure the boat is sea-worthy. I asked about just calling another company, but they didn’t want to comment on that (for obvious reasons.) I assume that I could just insure with another company for an old boat that’s in a little worse condition? The boat is perfectly fine to sail, it’s just cosmetic damage… any thoughts?

Edited by - on

Kirk McKay
Navigator

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USA
111 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2003 : 09:28:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bubba
 Kirk, I also got a pretty healthy estimate (around $6,000) from the composite shop at HHN. My insurance sent me a check to cover it (less deductible).
A guy at McCauley Boat Works recommended another fiberglass guy and gave me his card. He was slow in returning my call and I was probably impatient, so I contacted Osprey Composits at the marina. This other guy is John "Eddie" Bradburn 410-535-5395 or 410-231-4043 (cell). I was told he used to work at Osprey and then went and started his own business. I suspect he comes to your boat instead of the other way around. You might want to see what he'd charge. I suspect he has much lower overhead, but might be more restricted by the weather. Good luck with the repairs. At least we don't have to worry about getting that first scratch!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hey Dave,
Thanks for the info, I might give that guy a call. I really need to go out to HHN and take a good look at the boat and decide how much I want to get done. Does your $6000 include taking down the mast? I found out they would have to do that as well, since they would be working indoors. Just another $700 bucks or so.....oh, and then it was another $300 bucks to have the boat name painted.....

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2003 : 10:58:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Does your $6000 include taking down the mast? I found out they would have to do that as well, since they would be working indoors. Just another $700 bucks or so.....oh, and then it was another $300 bucks to have the boat name painted.....

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
WHAT
Here we go again! Why would anyone pay to have their mast taken down????????? If there is no wheel chair ramp on your boat then take it down yourself!!!!!!!!!
Sorry this all just weirds me out!

Since we do not have marinas that do work maybe I am not aware of how they do things. Do they refuse to let you do anything yourself? That would be a rip!

Edited by - on

Kirk McKay
Navigator

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USA
111 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2003 : 11:25:20

Honestly, I don't know if you can do it yourself at my marina, but when I had the Composite folks do my estimate, they took it upon themselves to call the rigging folks to let them know they would need to de-mast. The charge wasn't on the estimate, I only found out because the rigging guy had already done some repairs for me, so he called me. He had done the repairs while the boat was still in the water and I was still sailing (before this snow stuff came!) He was giving me a heads up that the other people had called him. I told him not to touch it unless I call him.
It might also be because there are something like 2000 boats there for winter storage. Wouldn't want some hack like me dropping a mast on somebody elses $200,000 boat. (They use the yard crane.)

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2003 : 12:02:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Here we go again! Why would anyone pay to have their mast taken down?????????
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think most boat yards have a policy to not allow the owner to do mast raising evolutions. The boat yard's liability insurance carrier would almost certainly require all such work to be done by yard employees.

Edited by - on

Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 12/12/2003 : 20:09:11

Kirk, I never thought of asking about dropping my mast. I was just planning to do it myself. I have no experience with it, but got enough advice on the 250 forum that I'm ready to try it. The manager at Osprey told me they would bring it inside if I dropped the mast, otherwise they would have to wait on the weather for the fiberglass work.

Edited by - on

Steve Kostanich
1st Mate

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88 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2003 : 21:08:37

Kirk,
If you have a place to get the boat inside, do the repairs yourself. Get all the possible info you can from the makers/suppliers of materials; glass, epoxy, gel coat etc. I know WEST and System 3 have great pamphlets on their products and how to use them. The dealers that sell the stuff are also a big help, as they get feedback from previous customers on how their repairs went. The product manufactures usually a a toll free line to their tech folks if you have a problem. Go for it!!

Steve Kostanich C-25 1119 Equinox sr/sk

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2003 : 21:36:55

Steve is right. Since there is no structural damage just forget about paying anyone to do anything to your boat. Leave the mast up. Spend the winter reading up on fiberglass/gelcoat repair. It's not rocket science. Get some small quantities of supplies and start playing with the "Medium". Make some salad bowls or whatever. Then, next spring when the weather gets warmer fix it. The rub rail is also something that's very DIY-able.

Give the insurance company their money back, keep your policy, and sail on.

But that's just me......

Oscar

Lady Kay 250 WB #618

Edited by - Oscar on 12/16/2003 21:38:42

Kirk McKay
Navigator

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USA
111 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2003 : 15:00:40

Well at this point I will attempt to do some of the repair myself in the spring. I was paid off by the insurance folks and I still own the boat (via salvage.) There is nothing preventing us from still sailing, the damage - while expensive to have fixed, is very minor. I got new insurance from another company, so that's not an issue. It's an old boat and was never in mint condition. We are really using it to hone our sailing skills and then hope to get a bigger boat that would be more comfortable for two couples to sail on.

On a more ominous note, I recieved a letter from the marina saying that they intend to completely redo the four piers that were wiped out in the storm. They say they will lose 100 slips in the process and the new slips will be in the 40 - 60 foot range. Gee, I wonder if my rates just got jacked up? Have you heard about this Bubba?

Edited by - on

frankr
Captain

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256 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2003 : 15:22:36

Yes - Kirk they are going up $100 per year. I just got my renewal - still beats the Annapolis area though.

Edited by - frankr on 12/18/2003 15:23:42

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2003 : 18:47:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by frankr
 Yes - Kirk they are going up $100 per year.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Our's went up $360.00 per year.

Edited by - on

Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2003 : 20:38:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Gee, I wonder if my rates just got jacked up? Have you heard about this Bubba?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Kirk,
I just sent you an e-mail by way of the forum. Let me know if you don't get it by posting a reply here.

Edited by - Bubba on 12/18/2003 21:02:07

Kirk McKay
Navigator

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USA
111 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2003 : 10:21:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by frankr
 Yes - Kirk they are going up $100 per year. I just got my renewal - still beats the Annapolis area though.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Frank, I would gladly pay $100 more, but they are turning my little slip into a 40 to 60 foot, state of the art slip. Plus they will lose 100 slips in the process (slips for the little guys like us!) I don't think they are only going charge me $100.

Bubba, I got your e-mail. Thanks for the info. I'm not sure what were going to do. We might try to go back to Paradise Marina which is just across the creek. It's a small place and a little more pricey than HHN "was", but the other slip holders were really nice. Lot's of after sailing get togethers...plus you can walk to Skippers Pier. The other option to to go a little north to see some other areas. Who knows?

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2003 : 10:16:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">the new slips will be in the 40 - 60 foot range<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Are we all getting a raise? Can I buy my dream boat? Why does nobody tell me these things?

Oscar

Lady Kay 250 WB #618

Edited by - Oscar on 12/20/2003 10:18:23

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2003 : 10:52:11

Not sure why they should lose capacity unless they "evict" all the smaller boats.
At my marina they often put two boats in the long slips.
I currently share a slip with a 37 footer.

The guy on the inside (me) has a little more manouvering to do,
but on the other hand, I'm closer to the water hose and shorepower.

Edited by - on

Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2003 : 17:03:44

Yeah Kirk. Think they'll let us split one?

I'll be down there in a day or two and see what they're up to. I understand they have an architectural drawing up in the office.

Edited by - on

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