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roller furler for Cat 25

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dpanic15
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/05/2003 : 11:10:52

Hi folks,
I have owned my Catalina for four years and to be honest with you, I am so sick and tired of messing with the jibs that I think twice about going out sometimes. I would love to put a roller furler on but I really can't afford anything expensive...
Any thoughts? or does anyone have a second hand extra they want to sell...cheap? :)
Dave

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2003 : 11:18:52

Edited by - on

1grndslr
1st Mate

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34 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2003 : 11:19:05

Dave, I'm looking for a roller furling system, also. I have decided on the CDI and am looking for the best prices. So far, Cruising Direct has had the best.

I got a lot of replies from owners. Check the archives and/or past topic streams for more information.

ted #5272

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2003 : 11:43:30

Also...
I am bidding on a head sail bag on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& item=2446308590& category=31281
I would appreciate your not out bidding me

I am getting it for those days when I sail in the rain and do not want to deal with a wet sail. Several people use them all of the time. Since most of us have old jibs the bag is probably not going to hurt it much. It is cheaper than a furler and allows you to leave the sail hanked on. Just a thought.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 12/05/2003 12:05:11

jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2003 : 12:44:45

Dave,

A couple of thoughts about your furler inquiry and (since I looked at where you live I also looked at your comments about fin vs swing) about finners.

What is the general wind condition where you sail? It has a lot to do with your choice of size of furling sail. I sail on SF Bay. Generally the wind kicks up in the afternoon to 20-25kts. Mornings there is almost nothing. I made a mistake when I ordered a 150 for my CDI FF4 furler. I thought that the big drifter size would really help me in the AM and I could furl as much as I needed to when it freshened. Reality is that a more modest size, like a 110 or 135 would have been better all around. I lose so much shape when I have to furl more than 20% that much of the performance is marginalized.

Hey Jude is a fin keel and with our wind conditions I can't imagine having a swing. My Buddy Paul's Sparkey is also a fin. We go out all year around. Winter is our rain storm season, and a solid fin is reassuring when we have two reefs in the main and smallest jib up. We also have the companionway covered and our wet gear on, gloves and boots.

So, it is the conditions that dictate what rig you should have. Paul has hank on sails and outsails me nearly every time. But when it is time to furl or come home it sure is nice to pull the string and be done.

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
SF Bay

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2003 : 14:30:26

That all changed with the furler!

Now I'll go out in all weather and sometimes, if the seas and wind are a bit too fresh, I'll only use the furling genoa leaving the main covered on the boom. If it is raining, I can set and douse my headsail all without leaving the comfort of my bimini.

What is really advantageous about roller furling is the ability to douse the headsail in mere seconds. Most sailors I know are smarter than me and will only go sailing in fair weather. I, on the other hand, will go out in anything (within reason) because I don't have a lick of sense. I can't count how many times I've been out in some snot, again sailing with a headsail only, and the wind instantly cranks it up a notch

giving me only seconds to quickly get rid of the cloth before something breaks. Having the furler allows me to do just that, quickly and safely.

Edited by - on

Jonathan Cuff
Navigator

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Cayman Island
173 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2003 : 15:32:15

Can anyone tell me what the length is of the forestay on the standard rig? I think I'm going to for the Harken Unit 00AL. It looks pretty rugged. I currently have a hanked 135 and agree with the sentiments already expressed. Here in Cayman the winds are mainly in the 10-12 knot range, but also can be 20 knots plus or a lot less. Hence thinking about getting a 150% genoa that I can furl.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2003 : 16:20:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Can anyone tell me what the length is of the forestay on the standard rig? I think I'm going to for the Harken Unit 00AL. It looks pretty rugged...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My boat came with a Harken furler and it has performed flawlessly, and appears to be bulletproof.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2003 : 18:18:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jonathan Cuff
 Can anyone tell me what the length is of the forestay on the standard rig? I think I'm going to for the Harken Unit 00AL. It looks pretty rugged. I currently have a hanked 135 and agree with the sentiments already expressed. Here in Cayman the winds are mainly in the 10-12 knot range, but also can be 20 knots plus or a lot less. Hence thinking about getting a 150% genoa that I can furl.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Good Choice! Buy all of it from Catalina Direct and you will get a new forestay in it.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2003 : 16:56:09

Mark V? Whadaya got, Don--a canting keel and swiveling mast?

Edited by - on

cch
Navigator

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202 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2003 : 17:36:51

Dave,

I have a CDI Furler on my boat and love it. I only race when I crew on other people's boats so I can leave mine rigged for comfort and cruising. Because I don't worry about ultimate performance I would not be without a furler on my boat. For a Cat25 I feel the CDI furler is adequate and therefore a good buy. Six years ago I purchased the CDI furler without bearings (the basic model) and it has been great! We often sail with a very small jib only, on very windy days when other sailboats stay in. Be sure to have your jib cut properly with luff foam to maintain proper sail shape when furled.

Edited by - on

cch
Navigator

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202 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2003 : 17:40:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Can anyone tell me what the length is of the forestay on the standard rig?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Jonathan,

I have a 1980 standard rig I just replaced the standing rigging on. The old rigging is sitting on a bench in my shop. I would be happy to measure the forestay if that would help? What measurement would you like?

Edited by - on

CatalinaGuy
1st Mate

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USA
55 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2003 : 21:41:01

I just finished installing a Harken 00AL on my boat. This is a beatifully designed and manufactured furler. I bought mine form CD, they make the forestay for you, because you need to install the luff foil joiners on the forestay before swaging on the toggle fitting. Price from CD was very good too. Only drawback to the Harken, is if you trailer often, it's not as good as durable as the plastic luff on the CDI, but for sailing it's the best there is.

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2003 : 06:59:44

Osmepneo's is a cdi ff4 which I am very happy with!

Only problem I had was cutting the luff. But with care and lots of measuring and making sure you cut at the right spot, it is very easy.

Now when I cut my luff, I measured correctly, and went to cur, but put the saw to the 25 foot mark,

and remember thinking that the part that fell to the ground seemed pretty long.

Only then did I realize that I had cut at the wrong point

.

cdi sent me a new luff, and this one I cut at the right spot.

Edited by - on

Denny
Deckhand

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USA
12 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2003 : 11:52:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dpanic15
 Hi folks,
I have owned my Catalina for four years and to be honest with you, I am so sick and tired of messing with the jibs that I think twice about going out sometimes. I would love to put a roller furler on but I really can't afford anything expensive...
Any thoughts? or does anyone have a second hand extra they want to sell...cheap? :)
Dave
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dave I am in the process of fixing up a Catalina 25. It had a old style CD furler with aluminum slides and a plastic barrel. The barrel was broken where it attached to the slides and I gave it to someone for parts. If you can find a barrel I will give you the slides. I decided to put another newer furler on my boat. At the Annapolis Boat Show I talked to the folks a Schaefer Marine and checked out their SnapFurl. They in turn sent me to the Defender folks that had them on special. I also saw one on the new 250 Catalina at the show. The cost of the furler and guide bracket with bullseye was under $400. I am not long experianced at sailing and have never even sailed a 25 including the one I am fixing up. My previous sailing experiance was on a Precision 14 that I still have, and a Rhodes 22 that I sold after getting the 25. I think the SnapFurler is a well designed, economical option for me. I will be sailing in the upper Chesapeake Bay and I think it will serve me well as I gain experiance sailing. My wife looks like this

if the boat heals past 10 degrees anyway. I think what you need depends on how and where you intend to sail. I just wanted to present a low buck option.

Denny

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

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USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2003 : 16:49:33

I wouldn't be so quick to go to a roller furler. sometimes i have even thought of getting rid of mine and going to a hanked on jib. I would only consider it for the better pointing ability. I found this article that comes from SAIL Dec 2001 issue in the "Things that Work" section. maybe it can be helpful. Further to this idea, on my old boat i used to have a canvas sail cover that would sit on the bow and you basically stuff the jib in there and permanently leave it on the deck, therefore, you don't have to worry about hanking it on every time you sail.

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

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USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2003 : 16:50:26

I almost forgot, if you lead your jib halyard aft, you can raise it easy also.

Edited by - on

Steve Kostanich
1st Mate

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88 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2003 : 12:19:22

I rigged a system exactly like is shown in the post by Denny, and it works pretty good, although I don't leave the jib on deck. For single handing and no furler, it's a reasonable way to go.

Steve Kostanich C-25 1119 sr/sk

Edited by - on

LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2003 : 13:30:38

I installed the Schaeffer SnapFurl 2 years ago and it's been wonderful! I find it to be easy also in trailering our boat, once you learn how to attach and unattach it. I would highly recommend it!

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2003 : 13:41:37

I've thought a lot about whether I needed to spring for a roller furler and either a new or recut foresail. It's way, way down on my priority list for lots of reasons. Dave, I don't know where you sail, or what you mean by "messing with the jibs." During the summer, I usually leave the jib hanked on the forestay and stow it in a headsail bag. If I decide to stow the sail in the peak, it takes about five minutes to haul it out, hank it on, and run the sheets aft. It takes considerably less time to remove the sail.

What I like about a hanked on jib is that it goes up much faster than unrolling a furled sail; I can adjust the luff tension depending on the wind conditions; with the downhaul that's attached to the topmost sail hank with a carabiner, I can drop the jib INSTANTLY. Try that with a furler.

Granted, I can't reef as I could with a roller furler. But for $ 500 - $ 1000, I'll change the sail, and buy some other goodies.

Brooke

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2003 : 22:41:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Brooke Willson
 ...What I like about a hanked on jib is that it goes up much faster than unrolling a furled sail...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Huh?...Brooke, I don't know what kind of furler you have used, but my furler is definately faster and easier than hoisting my old hanker. I simply release the furling line and, in the blink of an eye, the wind pops the sail out and to prove it is faster, I propose a race. On the word "go", you start hoisting your genoa and I'll release my furler. I'll bet before you are done hoisting your genoa I'll have already sheeted in mine.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Brooke Willson
 ...I can adjust the luff tension depending on the wind conditions....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

As can I with my furler.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Brooke Willson
 ...with the downhaul that's attached to the topmost sail hank with a carabiner, I can drop the jib INSTANTLY. Try that with a furler...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've been caught out a couple of times in conditions that went from a few knots of wind to 50mph in a few seconds and with the furler I was able to reel in the sail fairly quickly without leaving the cockpit or tiller. A hanked on genoa that was dropped to the deck, but still stretched out to the cockpit would've probably been severely damaged as the wind flogged it about.

I have only had a furler for a relatively short period of time compared to my time with hanked on sails, but there is nothing, I mean nothing, anyone can say that will convince me that hanked on sails are easier and faster to set and douse. Additionally, in my personal experience, if caught in a sudden blow nothing beats a furler when you need to get rid of every bit of cloth safely and securely.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2003 : 00:48:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
Additionally, in my personal experience, if caught in a sudden blow nothing beats a furler when you need to get rid of every bit of cloth safely and securely.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Amen! When I got my first furler back in '94, we were doing most of our sailing on San Francisco Bay and the San Joaquin River. These are both places where the wind can increase from a light beeze to 25 kts or more in only a few minutes. The Admiral, who was pretty critical at first of the $450 expenditure, was "sold" on the furler the first time she was on the boat after installation, and a stiff blow came up. She doesn't like to be at the helm by herself in rough conditions, and the fact that the furler enabled me to douse the headsail without leaving the cockpit made it a lot less stressful for her.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2003 : 07:27:37

I've only used a furler once, and that was a long time ago on a daysailer -- so I freely confess I'm not talking out of enormous experience. I have heard stories about jammed furling lines and drums. As for speed of setting and dousing, Don, I'll take that bet . Literally, it takes me three seconds to drop the jib. When I watch other boats furling the foresail, I haven't seen anything like that.

Please don't think I'm discounting furlers. They're amazing inventions, and I'd like to have one someday. My point was, and is, that it's not at the top of my priority list, that there are simple and cheap ways to make using hank-on sails work well, and that there are virtues to mechanical simplicity. Nothing is much simpler than a hank-on jib.

Brooke

Edited by - Brooke Willson on 12/22/2003 05:18:59

skipn809
Navigator

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111 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2003 : 09:40:12

Has anyone put a Snapfurler on a C-25 tall rig? If so, which model did you use?

Edited by - on

Mel Parsons
Deckhand

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14 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2003 : 21:35:45

I'm trying to decide between the CDI FF2 or the Snapfurl CF-500 for my standard rig. Catalina Direct says that the CDI is a simpler, more robust system than the Snapfurl and is better in high winds than the Snapfurl because it has a thicker foil. I want to keep the costs below $500 which rules out the Harken. Has anyone compared the CDI and Schaefer systems? Defender http://www.defender.com has the Snapfurl on sale right now for $383.36 which is as cheap as I've seen it. Sailnet has the CDI FF2 with the ball bearing upgrade for $420 and the non ball bearing FF2 for $370. Also, does anyone know if the FF4 is a more robust model than the FF2 or is it just longer?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2003 : 23:39:51

Have you gone to the slips to see these things? If not you need to. The foil of the CDI is its biggest drawback in my opinion. I would bet money it points more poorly than any of the others.

Soap box:
This is a piece of equipment that is so important and will be used so much, that buying anything less than exactly what you want is a mistake. The most expensive item you can buy is the one that does not do the job that you need it to do, you have spent the money and are still not happy. Find the money to get what you think you need to meet your sailing expectations.
Honestly, look at all of the things people spend money on for their boat, BBQs, instruments, radios, biminis, auto-pilots, weather instruments... non of that stuff is used to the degree your furler will be used, get what you want or keep on hank'n.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 12/20/2003 23:47:02

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