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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/06/2003 : 19:08:55

"Someday, I'd like to try to establish which hull numbers mark these 4 major design evolutions, to aid people who are shopping for a C-25."
Larry - may I be the first to help? This Side Up is Hull #2262,1981, with a separate fuel locker, aluminum windows and a fixed keel. It still has the original gas tank shelf in the port "warehouse" which is closed off by the new fuel locker. The last 4 digits in the HIN are M81B if this helps you identify the month built.
Derek

Derek Crawford
Chief Measurer C25-250 2008
Previous owner of "This Side UP"
1981 C-25 TR/FK #2262 Used to have an '89 C22 #9483, "Downsized"
San Antonio, Texas

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2003 : 21:45:43

Correct me if I wrong, but aren't these MK #'s something that was kind of made up and not that official?

I know the C22 have MK #'s, but they coincide with a major hull change(beam from 7'8" to 8'4") and not simply a cosmetic change. It seems to me that if someone where to try and refer to every running change as a different MK # then we'd probably be at MK XXXVII.

For me it's simple...I own a C25 SR/FK.

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2003 : 13:55:16

Don - I agree with you that we all own C25's. I think that Larry is trying to put together a sequence of changes that were made, both for his own satisfaction and for general interest.
It's also true that the C22 Mark II is a totally different boat from the Mark I (I don't know why Frank didn't call it a C220) - much like the C250 is a totally different boat than the C25. (Unlike us, the C22's don't allow the changed hull in their Nationals...and I think that they are the poorer organization for it)
Derek

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2003 : 21:55:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 Correct me if I wrong, but aren't these MK #'s something that was kind of made up and not that official?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Don is perfectly correct - the "Mark Number" system for separating Catalina 25's is my own invention. Although there were many small variations over the years, I think it's pretty well established by C-25 owners that there were 4 major design evolutions. I have chosen to use the Mark Numbers to separate them by key features: The Mk. I being the first 1800 or so boats without a separate gas tank locker (gas tank in the lazarette, only one hatch on the portside cockpit bench). Mk II starts with the first boat to have the separate gas tank locker. Mk. III starts with the first boat to have flush mount Lexan windows instead of the aluminum frame windows and ends with the last swing keel C-25 to be built. Mk. IV is the last run of about 228 boats to be built with the lowered cabin floor, following the elimination of the swing keel option sometine in the summer of '87.

In addition to those 4 key changes, there was a process of continual evolution involving the interiors (dinette vs. traditional) tall rig vs standard rig, and noticeable variations in the cabin top molds, rudders, pulpits, and other deck hardware. There isn't even any consistancy in which side the motor mounts were installed. Apparently most '77-'82's have the motor mount on the portside, and most boats built after that have the motor on the starboard side. This switch has been rumored to have had something to do with factory changes in the hull liner, making it easier to install the motor mount backing plates and fasteners on one side or the other depending on year.

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oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2003 : 23:18:52

Another change in C 25 construction which I believe might be considered of importance to prospective buyers, is the switch from cast iron fin keels and mild steel keel bolts, to lead fin keels secured with stainless bolts and hardware.

Silver Girl # 3744 delivered to me from the factory in June of '83, was built with stainless keel bolts and a lead fin keel.

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2003 : 16:01:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by oldsalt
 Another change in C 25 construction which I believe might be considered of importance to prospective buyers, is the switch from cast iron fin keels and mild steel keel bolts, to lead fin keels secured with stainless bolts and hardware.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You are quite right. I don't know much about the Fin Keel Catalina 25's, since there are not that many of them around here (Folsom Lake), but I am under the impression that the switch to lead keel with stainless bolts happened sometime in '81, possibly co-incident with the change to the "Mark II" deck (separate gas tank locker).

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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2003 : 16:09:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I am under the impression that the switch to lead keel with stainless bolts happened sometime in '81, possibly co-incident with the change to the "Mark II" deck (separate gas tank locker).<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I recall an exhaustive thread about 6 months ago which narrowed the transition from "Mark 1" to "Mark 2" to between about 110 hull numbers, all '1980 models.

I believe that thread also confirmed the switch to lead keels was in '83, thus not related to the "Mark 2" transition.

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oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2003 : 17:29:47

I believe that there was also a change to heavier chainplates and standing rigging but I'm not sure as to when that occurred.

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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2003 : 17:36:30

Here it is (oldsalt found it)...[url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4090&whichpage=2"]Hull Nos.[/url]

111 boats between dlucier's '80 #2151 "Mark 1" and Derek's '81 #2262 "Mark 2". In clarification of my earlier post, we don't have enough info to confirm that the transition was in late '80 or early '81 (perhaps 1/1/81?).

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