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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

cockpit drains

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John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/22/2003 : 13:21:49

There was a time when Catalina Direct sold a retro-fit cockpit drain which went through the transom. I believe it was a bronze fitting for which CD rented a tool.

I don't see it in the online catalogue and I can't find it in my owners handbook. does any one know of this refit, or does anyone have a solution to the problem of the small drains in the mark I C25.
I'm lining up cold weather projects and this is one problem I would like to solve.

John V.
Nin Bimash II
Neebish Island, MI
77 C25 sk/sr #153

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 13:26:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John V.
 ...does anyone have a solution to the problem of the small drains in the mark I C25...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What is the problem with these drains?

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 14:26:12

The orriginal drains are very small. about 1/2 in in dia each.
they are easily clogged and because of the passage through the cockpit floor the drains are vulnerable to ice and cracking in cold weather.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 14:55:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John V.
 The original drains are very small. about 1/2 in in dia each.
they are easily clogged and because of the passage through the cockpit floor the drains are vulnerable to ice and cracking in cold weather.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have these same drains, but I haven't had any problems with them. The screens are good at catching debris which prevents clogs. As for their vulnerability to ice and cracking, the straight down through the hull design appears to eliminate the possibility of having any standing water.

My last boat had an open cockpit drain that exitted the transom after the hose made a 90 degree turn. I found this design to be a pain because the open drain allowed anything and everything to enter from fishflies and candy wrappers to small kids toys. This seemed to cause endless clogs.

Additionally, I wasn't too crazy about the transom exit because it left an ugly stain on my white transom from the thru-hull to the water line. All it took was a leaf to get into the drain hose to turn the water dribbling out the transom thru-hull into a nice organic stain. The floor-to-hull connection on the C25 drains effectively hides these stains.

Edited by - on

GeorgeB
1st Mate

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90 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 15:43:59

Any Idea on where to get a replacement grill for those old style drains?

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 16:08:20

John V,

On my 1979 C-25, I replaced the original 1" scuppers with 1-1/2" flush mount Marlon ones (from Forespar, I think) bedded with polysulfide caulk. They came with removable Marlon grates. There are a few details I should mention.

The hull thickness at the transom tapers significantly. I added an epoxy fiberglass backing plate inside the hull, and bedded it with glass reinforced epoxy mush and little fiberglass wedges to hold it parallel to the outside of the hull while the mush cured. I think I waxed the new thru-hull and used it as a male mold and alignment tool for this step.

Grinding the countersink in the cockpit sole to match the new parts was a bit tedious. Grinding the countersink under the hull wasn't as bad, because there's more room to manuever the grinder and sanding drums.

Getting the 1-1/2" hose in there was a bit of a wrestling match. You may want to combine that step with installing either the upper or lower thru-hull, so as to have as much space and flexibility as possible.

The upper and lower thru-hull centerlines are not parallel or coliner -- the hose has to form a slight bend.

-- Leon Sisson

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John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 16:11:51

I appreciate the input but I really didn't want to discuss the virtues or lack thereof in the original drains, but to find if CD still offered the transom drain.

I'm not concerned with the cosmetics of a white transom but for the ability to drain 50 or so gallons of water from the cockpit rapidly.

One of the drains has cracked due to ice (probably some years back) and allows water to enter the space between the cockpit floor and the inner liner. so I have several reasons to seek an alternative.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 16:24:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John V.
 I'm not concerned with the cosmetics of a white transom but for the ability to drain 50 or so gallons of water from the cockpit rapidly.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

To drain 50 or so gallons rapidly, you'll need the open transom of the C250.

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 19:41:42

Don, I think I need to be a little more clear. My present drains are not working as I would like. Two years ago I had to completely remove the cockpit floor to dry out the ply core. once dry I re-set the floor in epoxy and put down another layer of glass. The source of the water is a crack in the drain which allows water to enter the area between the two layers. Though the floor is fixed there is still the problem of the faulty drain. CD had a product available a few years ago but I had not seen it for some time. Leon's solution may be the correct one for me. I keep a small plumber's helper in the lazarette to keep the drains open. As for draining the cockpit quickly, I don't think I mean a total emptying in a matter of seconds, but perhaps more quickly than at present with a total of 1 inch of drainage diameter.

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Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2003 : 07:28:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Two years ago I had to completely remove the cockpit floor to dry out the ply core. once dry I re-set the floor in epoxy and put down another layer of glass.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
A little off topic but do you have any pictures or advice of how you did this? I need to do this myself. The cockpit core is mush from the boat sitting on the trailer for years with the bow down.
I have several books about fiberglass repair and have read extensively about this. Any insight you have will be greatly appreciated.

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HGraham
Deckhand

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USA
21 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2003 : 09:39:15

John,

Four years ago I ordered the bronze scuppers from CD for my C22. Yes, they came with the rental tool for sweging the fittings into place, along with the core drill for the transom. The problem with the earlier 22's was that the cockpit sole sloped forward to the two tiny screened drains that emptied into the keel trunk. Because of the slow rate of drainage it was possible to flood the cockpit with a water hose, not to mention hard rains and tree debris. In fact when I bought the boat it had been stored on the hard for two years and the cockpit had flooded into the cabin where 7" of water had accumulated.
CD's claim for the transom mounted scuppers was more for the purpose of saftey in the event of a knockdown and righting. The existing drains simply did not meet the CG requirements for bailing the cockpit.
As for the 25, some good points were made; if the transom surfaces are not parallel the scupper will not seat properly with the tool. Maybe that's why it's not offered in the catalog for the 25.

Keep us posted.

Harry

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PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2003 : 16:10:40

Sparky is a '79 and I do not like the scuppers for a couple of reasons. Too small and they drain underneath the transom near the waterline. I worry about the hose coming loose there. I've mulled over cutting a proper scupper clear across the stern from the cockpit sole to transom and just glassing it in. Any comments on that idea?

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2003 : 16:39:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PZell
 ...I've mulled over cutting a proper scupper clear across the stern from the cockpit sole to transom and just glassing it in. Any comments on that idea?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

[url="http://www.marineeast.com/a_hme/hme_hme.asp"]Marine East[/url] has a thru-transom telescoping scupper that has a 2"x6" opening.

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PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2003 : 11:27:52

That's the ticket. Thanks.

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2004 : 12:43:18

That's the ticket. Thanks. - Paul

Hi Paul,

'Thought I'd revive this thread ... I need to fix my cockpit drainage, too, and I like the looks of the drain that Don posted above.

Did you install these in your boat, or do you plan to? Did you find something else?

Thanks!

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2004 : 11:00:57

Every autumn and winter since I bought "Quiet Time I" in 1996, I have struggled with the cockpit drains. Except for one summer when I had an in-water slip, the boat was always dry-sailed, and the cockpit drains were always getting clogged with leaves from the trees around the dry storage lot. In winter, I would have to drive out to the lake at least a couple times a month to make sure the drains were clear, so that rainwater would not flood the boat. Installing the thru-transom scupper retrofit kit was one of the jobs I had scheduled for this winter, until I bought the new boat. The boat I had in '94-'96 was an '86 Catalina 22 - the first year they had flush-mount windows and transom drains - and I really missed those no-worry transom drains when I bought the '79 C-25. All it took was two or three wet leaves to completely stopper those floor drains. As Harry Graham says in his posting, the first generation C-22's were the absolute worst for drainage; with the drains in the front of the cockpit, you had to tilt the boat forward on the trailer, so a clogged drain was even more likely to result in rainwater flooding the cabin through the companionway. Another problem I have always had with "Quiet Time I" is that the cockpit floor does not slope aft enough, and perhaps has a slight sag in the middle, causing a puddle of water to remain after any kind of dousing. I have to stand my full weight on the transom above the outboard motor to get this puddle to (mostly) drain out, then wipe up the remainder with a towel. All C-22's and -25's made after 1986 have a small depression in the very back of the cockpit floor that helps drain out those last small puddles. A nice design feature that would be difficult, although not impossible I guess, to retrofit into an older boat.

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PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2004 : 12:53:41

Thanks Buzz for reviving the thread. I have been thinking about that
part the last week or so, and couldn't remember the supplier. I'm planning to do a haul out sometime this spring, and that is one of
the projects I'm considering. So, to answer your question: I haven't done it yet, but I like it. IMHO the small drains are insufficient.

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2004 : 14:19:59

So, to answer your question: I haven't done it yet, but I like it. IMHO the small drains are insufficient. - Paul

Thanks, Paul. I agree with your assessment of the drains ... to make matters worse in my case, one of my scuppers was permanently disabled by a PO when the Edson wheel steering system was installed ... having only one certainly doesn't provide enough drainage ... and, as Larry pointed out, it takes very little to stop up the old style scuppers.

I think I'll also end up installing the telescoping thru-transom scuppers that Don found. That same style scupper is in all the major catalogs, and each of the catalogs lists Marine East as the supplier ... so far they all seem to be about the same price, too ($30.52 at Marine East vs. $31.49 at West Marine and BoatUS).

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KTwomey
1st Mate

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USA
43 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2004 : 12:44:01

John V.

Catalina Direct still has a kit to install the bronze thru-transom scuppers. Talk to Lindsey at 1 800 959-7245. The cost is $85.95 and includes the rental of the tool to drill the hole and crimp? the tubes. It also includes the ups package to return the rental tool.

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