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coach
Navigator

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USA
231 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/22/2003 : 16:22:51

About how much would it run to to add a wheel to my 84 Cat 25? Wife is curious about the change, she thought it might make it easier for
her to steer.

Thanks

"Yes I am a pirate, 200 years to late" J.Buffet

www.springfieldstallions.com

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 16:35:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by coach
 

About how much would it run to to add a wheel to my 84 Cat 25? Wife is curious about the change, she thought it might make it easier for
her to steer.

Thanks

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

In past discussions on adding wheel steering, a couple of people had quotes of $1,800.00 plus for parts. Labor might add some more $$$.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 17:38:05

There are many discussions of this topic in the archives, the most recent being http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4818.

I think the majority opinion is that it's not a great idea. Expensive and space-eating are two of the top reasons.

The irony is that most sailors feel a tiller gives them MORE control, not less. And, you can lift the tiller out of the way at the dock -- try that with a pedestal.

Brooke

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 20:27:24

$1200 to $1500 for a kit and you do the instal. http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4818

Edited by - Douglas on 12/22/2003 20:31:42

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 21:16:23

coach,
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">... she thought it [a wheel] might make it easier for her to steer.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I don't think this is a real good idea. (There. I've spared you the much longer and more colorful first draft of this post.

)

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

ppetracca
Navigator

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USA
163 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 21:19:31

In my opinion, for the 1/2 cent it's worth, is there are 3 downfalls to installing wheel steering on a 25.

1) I don't think any boat of less than 30' with wheel steering leaves ample cockpit room. The beam is not sufficient to make the wheel easy to move around and the pedastal takes up valuable cockpit space. The type of sailing done in our boats; day trips, racing, weekend cruises and entertaining demand more exterior space than would be left after installation of a wheel system. Also, if you use one, you've got spinnaker sheets coming in from aft and your jib sheets could not be easily trimmed if you were single handing.

2) I don't know how your outboard controls are set up, but I can see where reaching my motor while operating a wheel would be very dificult. Currently, I can sit on the starboard side of the cockpit and operate my outboard with my left hand while steering with the tiller extender in the right hand. I slip and unslip my boat by myself all the time and never have a problem controling it. I guess if you mounted motor controls on the steering pedestal (another set uf expenses for an outboard) then that would negate this problem.

3) My experience on both my '22 and '25 is that they tend to drag in the back when seated all the way aft. Going to windward in light air, it is very hard to get my boat moving when there is extra weight in the back of the cockpit. That is one thing that makes the original mainsheet system so lousy. You take the time to sit forward of the tiller for weight and were's your mainsheet? In the hardest place to reach without putting weight on the transom. This would be compounded by the weight of the wheel steering assembly as well as forcing the helmsman all the way aft.

I guess my take is "Could you do it?" Sure...."Should you do it?" Not if you want to sail efficiently and have a roomy, comfortable cockpit.

I guess if you never race, don't singlehand, only routinely have 2 or 3 adults on board and rarely sail in light air then then go for the expense. Keep in mind, it is a major expense you will most likely not recover should you ever, Heaven forbid, want to sell your boat.

Edited by - on

eric.werkowitz
Captain

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USA
283 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 21:23:18

Coach,

Do you have an autopilot? If not, it's a much better (and cheaper) investment.

Eric Werkowitz
C25 #4969

Edited by - eric.werkowitz on 12/22/2003 21:23:58

coach
Navigator

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USA
231 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 23:28:23

Thanks for the info...I told her what everyone said and she decided to drop the idea.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 23:30:37

Has anybody else experienced this or is it just me?

First off, I've used a tiller since I was a kid and it has become quite instinctive as to which direction I need to move it in order to steer the boat. So instinctive that I could do it in my sleep. This past summer I took the helm of my friends Hunter 28 with wheel steering and I was having a hard time retraining my brain to turn the wheel in the opposite direction as the tiller. It was quite hilarious as I turned the wheel in the wrong direction pretty much every single time I made a course correction. Even when I was concentrating and my brain was telling my hand to turn this way, my hand would turn the wheel that way. After awhile it got better, but it still seemed odd as all get out to steer in this manner, kind of like if you swapped the gas and brake pedals in your car.

Has anyone done this, too?

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 23:53:21

Just exchanged our 79 C25 for a new C250 with wheel and believe me the General and I both had a continous laugh at each other when we would try an adjust course. It was one over-correction after another. If the sheriff would have been on the water that day I am sure he would have assumed we were both higher than kites. It has gotten easier, but at times it still becomes a mess especially in puffs. Old habits are hard to break.

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2003 : 00:06:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 Has anybody else experienced this or is it just me?

First off, I've used a tiller since I was a kid and it has become quite instinctive as to which direction I need to move it in order to steer the boat. So instinctive that I could do it in my sleep. This past summer I took the helm of my friends Hunter 28 with wheel steering and I was having a hard time retraining my brain to turn the wheel in the opposite direction as the tiller. It was quite hilarious as I turned the wheel in the wrong direction pretty much every single time I made a course correction. Even when I was concentrating and my brain was telling my hand to turn this way, my hand would turn the wheel that way. After awhile it got better, but it still seemed odd as all get out to steer in this manner, kind of like if you swapped the gas and brake pedals in your car.

Has anyone done this, too?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Daylight Again was my first boat with a wheel and I think it took close to a year to get over using it like a tiller.

I also have a Catalina 12.5 Expedition; going from a wheel to a tiller is not a problem. I think it would take anyone that learned to sail with a tiller time to adjust to a wheel.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2003 : 01:03:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">... with wheel steering and I was having a hard time retraining my brain to turn the wheel in the opposite direction as the tiller. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Yeah, I've done that.

What worked for me was to put my hand at the bottom of the wheel until my brain got turned right way around.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2003 : 01:56:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Leon Sisson
 coach,
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">... she thought it [a wheel] might make it easier for her to steer.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I don't think this is a real good idea. (There. I've spared you the much longer and more colorful first draft of this post.

)

-- Leon Sisson

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

Raskal
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2003 : 15:54:38

If you own a Honda outboard you'll need to have something to bang on it with in a fit of rage when it won't start, so the tiller beats the wheel for that every time...

Rich Kokoska

Edited by - on

IndyJim
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 12/25/2003 : 23:21:53

Hey Don,

I'm one of those Catalina 25 "wheel skippers". You are exactly right about taking a while to get used to it! After years of tiller sailing, it was humorous and a little embarrassing. The first month I must have rounded up 20 times turning the wheel in the tiller direction.

The strange thing is... when I'm at the helm on my buddy's C-25, tiller steering feels perfectly natural. So, I guess it only a factor in the tiller to wheel conversion. :)

And for all of you wonderful skippers who trash the wheel idea on a C-25, I love my wheel. It's the next best thing to roller furling! When I bought my C-25, the wheel was one of the reasons I chose this particular vessel. The concern about cockpit space sounds like a legitimate concern. But who really has guests sitting aft in the cockpit when you're tiller sailing? When I had a tiller, anyone sitting aft other than the skipper got their knees (or other body parts) banged by tiller movement.

All my sailing buddies who have tillers love coming aboard and taking the helm... just to use the wheel. Throw in my Simrad Wheel Autopilot and life is good!

I can understand how the cost may be prohibitive, especially if you're not doing the work yourself. As I said, my wheel was already installed when I bought her, so boat units, blood, sweat and toil weren't an issue. If I hadn't sailed a C-25 with a wheel, I would be saying and thinking the same things most skippers do. And, I doubt very seriously if I would spend the bucks. So, I understand many of your thoughts about wheel steering on a C-25.

How boring would it be if all our C-25's were identical?

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2003 : 12:20:56

I sailed a 40-50 boat in Bermuda with a wheel and found I had a difficult time adjusting to it - specifically knowing where the rudder was. Like Don, I've sailed with tillers on my boats all my life, and it is instinctive to me to move it to adjust the boats position.

Another point I've noticed about sailing 25's is that they are sensitive to weight distribution. In some ways you'd think a wheel would open open the cockpit, but then the helmsmen is forced to the very aft part of the cockpit, and if you are not a timy person, that puts extra weint back there, and that's not good for boat balance.

Edited by - on

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