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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

changing CDI furler line

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sailgal
Captain

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USA
400 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/19/2004 : 13:42:08

I have the CDI ff2 and have used the thin line that came with it since I bought my 2002 Catalina. In heavy winds that darn skinny line is tough to haul in (to the point that two crew need to get involved, two hands struggling with furler line and helm holding the sheets so jib rolls tight and doesn't shred out of control in high wind) I pulled the CDI booklet and it says...."you can de-core larger double braid line foward of the cockpit, thereby reducing the diameter as it winds on the drum." Here is the question...is de-coring basically whipping or slicing two lines of different diameter together? If so is there a drawback to this, or is it better to just buy new furling line. The problem I see with new larger line, is with the drum and the hole where it connects being too small to accommodate larger line. Anyone change the line on their CDI? Any suggestions would be appreciated, (otherwise I may lose a crew member who might fear high winds when it is time to furl).

Suzie, Tropical Sleigh

WB #619 Sarasota FL.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2004 : 14:35:55

When I returned to sailing 6 mos ago I was met with the new cordage technologies and the techniques to take advantage of them. The idea that I believe you are referring to is where you leave the core and strip the jacket. It is the core that is strong so if you are going to reduce diameter you would want to leave the core and take off the outer cover which is there for its “handling” characteristics. I do believe that you simply whip the place where the core and cover meet. This is now common on racing sailboats to reduce weight aloft and leave something other than a garrote to handle. To me it seems like a lot of trouble but it may be what you should do. However, there are 1/4” lines that can take halyard tensions so you probably can find a line that is strong and has a nice coat that will fit your drum.

Edited by - on

Kip C
Navigator

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USA
243 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2004 : 21:51:37

Hi Suzie,

The PO of our boat instauled the larger line on our CDI. He must have used a spicing tool to cut the core . This left a nice transition and as I understand it, the line he used was strong enough without the core for its use. I seem to remember that 20 turns on the drum is the length of line needed to be decored. Looking in the west marine cataloge, I believe the line is 5/16 solid red sta-set. I played with our furler this summer a little because it was sometimes hard to use. After cleaning and inspecting the entire furler, I decided to purchase the ball bearing to make it easier on my crew. Good Luck.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2004 : 06:29:06

I think I'm hearing that the ff2 has a smaller drum size than the ff4 and requires a smaller line. Interesting. If otherwise the mechanics are similiar to the ff4, Kip makes a great point in favor of regular maintenance to keep the nylon bearing block surface clean of dirt or replacing the bearing with the ball bearing upgrade.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2004 : 08:37:29

Who installed the furler, the PO? The FF2 is meant for small boats, 19' or less. It's hard to believe that a Catalina dealer would put an FF2 on a Catalina 25 or 250. 25' boats are supposed to have the FF4 furler, which has a drum sized for 5/16" line.

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sailgal
Captain

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USA
400 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2004 : 12:58:11

I bought my 2002 250 WB new and the CDI ff2 furler came with the boat package direct from factory not an after market. The manual that CDI provides does not give a max boat length.
I just ordered the ball bearing kit from CDI ($80) sure hope that will do the trick. Was it a difficult install, the salesman said it can be done on water with furler up. Any tips? Thanks.

Edited by - sailgal on 01/20/2004 13:17:29

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2004 : 13:24:29

I've never de-cored my furling line, but I've done a bit of de-coring of double-braid while making eye-splices.

First, new line is much easier to work with because the cover tends to fuse to the core on old, worked line. Massaging new line, or bending it back and forth along the length to be de-cored, helps break the bond between the core and cover. A good tool I've found to pull the core out is a corkscrew. At the point where you want to pull the core out, bend the line sharply, holding the bend with one hand, and use the tip of the corkscrew to make a hole in the cover at the top of the bend by gently moving individual strands of the cover away from the hole. The hole doesn't need to be big on new line (also, colored line is easier because you can easily differentiate between the strands of the cover and the white core). Then use the tip of the corkscrew to hook the core and pull it out just a little, creating a little loop with the core. Then you can straighten the bend, pinch tightly the side of the line which you want the core to remain and pull the core out of the other side. The end of the line has to be un-whipped so that the end of the core can be pulled through.

While I'm not sure the extent de-coring the furling line will affect its strength, I'd guess bigger line (with a stronger cover) might be ok.

I have a pretty old CDI furler (1981) so I try to take it easy on it. It's less stressfull on the equipment (and my hands pulling 1/4" line with one hand while holding the jib sheet with the other) if I reef/furl the jib while pinching the wind a little or slightly blanketing the jib with the main.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2004 : 17:43:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It's hard to believe that a Catalina dealer would put an FF2 on a Catalina 25 or 250<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hang around on this forum long enough and nothing would surprise you as far as Catalina and its entourage goes...

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I bought my 2002 250 WB new and the CDI ff2 furler came with the boat package direct from factory not an after market.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hah!

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I just ordered the ball bearing kit from CDI ($80) sure hope that will do the trick. Was it a difficult install, the salesman said it can be done on water with furler up. Any tips? Thanks.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes! Watch your fingers!!!!! The weight of the luff foil (that long piece of plastic that goes all the way up around your head stay) is considerable, especially with the sail on it. The sharp edges of the drum can, if you do it right, form a small "guillotine", If your fingers are in it and the foil comes slamming down on it you will most likely be dancing around on the foredeck reciting pieces of a famous George Karlan routine. (the one where he talks about one of the most versatile words in our daily language....I'll give you a hint, it starts with an "f"). Yes, I've done it.

So, now I slide the foil up and tie a line from one side of the pulpit to the other, with a number of twists around the head stay, keeping the foil securely up. Then I do my thing.

I'm not looking at your bearing kit, but I find it hard to imagine installing it without disconnecting the head stay. If you do, make sure you secure the mast with a halyard to the pulpit.....(I know you know that, but I've made little errors that became big problems, so I have to say it.

)

Finally, I added a cam cleat to the deck for the furler line. When single handling, belaying the line on the factory cleat is a pain. Furthermore, bringing in a line with tension on it is infinitely easier if it will only go in one direction, the correct one. Life got a lot easier after this mod.

Oscar

Lady Kay 250 WB #618
Sunrise on the Neuse River...

Edited by - Oscar on 01/20/2004 17:50:27

Mark Loyacano
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2004 : 19:01:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sailgal
 I just ordered the ball bearing kit from CDI ($80) sure hope that will do the trick.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You won't regret the ball bearing kit. In moderate winds you will be able to furl with one hand. My wife and I hardly believed the difference at first...good luck.

Edited by - on

Kip C
Navigator

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USA
243 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2004 : 19:42:21

After checking cdi's manual, I see they have the max. headstay length of 29 ft. and a max wire size of 3/16. The headstay is 7 and 10 in. longer on the 250 and 25 standard rids. Maybe if the boat is using something smaller than a 150 genoa, they allow a ff2 to be instauled. Just guessing what their reasoning is.
I only recently bought my bearing and plan to instaul it when the weather breaks. Oscar's right about the headstay, but I would remove the sail and use vise grips to hold the luff up. Unscrew the t-bolt from the turnbuckle and the cup and bearing still attached. I believe the main bearing should lift off. There is an antirotational strap stradling the t-bolt, it's attached to the cup with 2 srews. Those screws are what will screw in to the new ball bearing. Look at the manual and all this should make some sense once you get your new bearing.
Also, when removing your sail, be sure to extend the furler halyard with a 25-30ft line before you lower the sail.

Edited by - Kip C on 01/20/2004 21:02:00

tmhansen
Captain

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USA
397 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2004 : 01:12:05

I can agree with Oscar completely on holding the luff up securly while you install the bearing. I had my wife hold it up while I slipped in a few more washers at the end of the forestay. She lost her grip at one point and I got off with only a painful pinch - I was able to hold my tongue. My wife felt terrible, but it was really my fault, I should have seen the potential and figured something out. I was in too much of a hurry to get on the water. The next opportunity I bought a pair of vice grips to keep in the boat tool box for the next time.

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Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2004 : 01:45:16

A good way to get to the turn buckle inside the drum. Loosen the furling line running to the cockpit.Lift the drum out of the stainless housing take a line about 2' long with a bowline tied at each end rap the line around the drum though one of the loops so the line will tighen on it self as pressure is applied hook the other bowline loop to the unused jib halyard pull up on the jib halyard and cleat it off. This will raise it about an 1" above the turn buckle giving you plenty of room to work and 2 hands free.

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sailgal
Captain

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USA
400 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2004 : 10:34:03

Thanks for the tips I'm anxiously awaiting the upgrade kit...will report back with install info when it happens. Any and all tips in this are greaty appreciated!!

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