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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Installing a depth meter Humminbird HDR 200

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Phredde
Navigator

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125 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/19/2004 : 22:14:49

Has anyone installed this model into their Catalina 25? The tranducer it came with does not seem to get a reading through the hull, even sitting in a puddle of water near the head. But it works fine dipped directly into the bay. I can't imagine mounting it on the transom, due to shape and heel, etc...Should I exchange the transom mount type tranducer for a through hull? If so, can I use an existing hole (I have a knot meter that looks OEM that does not work) or do I need to drill? Any advice

Phredde
Catalina 25
San Francisco

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2004 : 22:41:41

Phredde,

When you say, "...sitting in a puddle of water near the head.", I gotta ask, was that puddle against the rough outer hull, or just in the smooth inner hull liner? I hope that's a dumb question. There's a significant air gap between the liner and the hull which the transducer absolutely would not see past.

I installed my fishfinder depth transducer shoot-thru style in the locker under the V-berth, on centerline as far aft as possible. Try a puddle of water there, and see how it goes. If you're still having problems getting an encouraging reading, go back to simple experiments.

* Hang the transducer over the side to verify that at least something works.

* Put the transducer in a hard plastic pan or bowl of some sort (fiberglass would of course be ideal) with some water, and hold that over the side to verify basic shoot-thru capability.

* Try holding the transducer in a puddle of water inside a storage locker against the rough surface of the hull to further verify shoot-thru capability.

* While you're experimenting, check to see if the transducer can see through a ziplock baggy of water held firmly against the rough surface of the hull.

* If all that goes well, you should be experienced, confident and ready to hunt for the optimum permanent location for the transducer.

Some folks prefer permanently mounting the transducer to the hull with epoxy. That's the method suggested by the folks who sell new transducers!

I asked them how to undo such an installation, and they said to use a sledgehammer.

I used the PVC cleanout and distilled water method.

Let us know how it goes.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

mmac
Navigator

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USA
168 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2004 : 16:45:51

My depth sounder is 20 years old. I mounted the transducer in a modeling clay dam filled with silicone under the vee berth. It has worked very well. Other suggestions are:

1. Listen to Leon

2. Look on page 3 of the General Forum for this topic.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2004 : 18:33:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mmac
 My depth sounder is 20 years old. I mounted the transducer in a modeling clay dam filled with silicone under the vee berth. It has worked very well. Other suggestions are:

1. Listen to Leon

2. Look on page 3 of the General Forum for this topic.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Let's face it... #1 pretty much always gets it!

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cch
Navigator

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202 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2004 : 21:20:49

I had fits with my transducer but finally got it to work. I like Leon's suggestions to be sure everything is working. The one advantage to installing the transducer in epoxy once you determine it will work is that you will probably not have trouble with it.

To find the best location I sanded the rough surface of the hull with 80 grit paper to get it somewhat smooth. I then stuck it in a bed of vaseline to see if it would read through the hull. I found the best location to be under the stairs next to where our swing keel cable went through the hull (just starboard of center) Once the location was established we used a bed of Marine Tex (Marine Tec?) epoxy to stick it to the hull. We made sure it would read before allowing it to harden. 6 years later all is well. I do imagine it would take a sledge hammer to remove it however!

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2004 : 13:04:48

Phredde:

Despite trying all of Leon's suggestions (spot on), I've been unable to find a spot for my Raytheon 265 transducer which will consistantly provide a depth reading other than zero. Someone previously guessed microscopic bubbles may have been trapped in my hull when it hardened in the mold. Sounds plausible, but who knows.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2004 : 13:36:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RichardG
 
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Phredde forgive the tangent...
Richard, I realy like your sig photo. One of my favorite pieces of sailing art is a photo of a bunch of dinks at a small dock. It is similar to the old saying about everyone putting their pants on the same, no matter how large your yacht you still come ashore in a dink!

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Ellis Bloomfield
1st Mate

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USA
85 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2004 : 14:33:31

I have a Humminbird HD 200 and initially glassed the puck into the V berth location. Readings were eratic and so I installed another transducer in the back end under the cockpit. Same thing, it seemed to work great when I didn't need it and not very reliable when I did. Talked to Humminbird and they feel it may be in my wire routing. I have a remote mike setup on the Horizon radio and they think there might be interferrence. I'm going to check that out next spring when things thaw out. Ellis

Edited by - on

mroettersr
Navigator

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USA
148 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2004 : 00:27:31

Phredde,
I installed my HDR 200 just as Lean suggested using PCV pipe in the locker under the v-birth for the transducer. I filled the pipe with distilled water and modified a screw-on pipe cap so the transducer wire passes through the center of the cap. After Humminbird replaced the defective read out which gave eradic depth soundings, the unit works fine. I used some latex caulk to test the location and then set the pcv pipe in epoxy. Good luck.

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2004 : 12:37:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Talked to Humminbird and they feel it may be in my wire routing<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ellis:

That's interesting...were they specific about whether your radio wiring is causing problems with the wire from the transducer or the power wire (or both)? While testing transducer locations, my transducer wire was pretty much separate, but the power wire of both my VHF radio and fishfinder run right next to each other for about 4' -- could this be causing my difficulties?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I realy like your sig photo<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Frank:

Thank you. I am really fond of Sweet Pea and feel a sense of pride when I get compliments about her.

Edited by - on

Ellis Bloomfield
1st Mate

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USA
85 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2004 : 15:15:52

Richard,
What we discussed was the transducer cable. My readout unit is located just a few inches from the socket on my VHF. I replaced the readout unit and the transducer and will dig into the problem a little deeper this summer. The swing keel has saved me a couple of times but I didn't spend money for the depthfinder to resort to that. If separating the read out from the socket fixes it I'll just bore another hole on the port side for the socket. Ellis

Edited by - on

jsummerfield
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2004 : 22:38:08

I found good spots forward and aft of the keel. Look under the V-berth and lightly sand a nearly level spot; or aft of the heel under the quarter-berth and sand a flat spot. Then mount the transducer with water or oil to eliminate air bubbles under the transducer.

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2004 : 18:13:16

I mounted my transducer on the port side about a foot ahead of the trailing edge of my fin keel. The hull is flat there, and there is no turbulence problem. If it is a new location and you wish to mount through the hull (which I recommend), then I would suggest the following:

1) Purchase or borrow a hole saw that will make a hole of the correct size fro your transducer.

2) Carefully check inside and outside the hull for a location with no obstacles, and drill a pilot hole the size of the bit. Recheck location. Then drill the hole with a hole saw.

3) If increasing the size of hole for an existing transducer you have removed, use a hole saw the size of the existing hole to drill out a bung in a piece of 3/4" pine. Screw and glue the pine bung onto a board and chock it in place inside the hull with the pine bung filling the hole (you may need a helper to hold it in place). Then simply drill the new, larger hole into the hull from the outside using the pilot hole in the bung to center the larger hole saw.

4) Mounting a transducer inside a hull can work, but the number of variables increases, as does the number of reasons it won't work. One way to help it work is to glass a three-inch diamater plastic pipe (plumber's drain pipe works fine) onto the hull. Place the transducer inside the pipe, fill the pipe with mineral oil and glue on a cap (making sure you drill a small hole and run the lead out first).

5) Be sure to use water-based transducer paint for the flat surface of the transducer. Regular bottom paint will interfere with the transduce (but I am sure you already know this).

I hope this helps.

Edited by - on

jsummerfield
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2004 : 19:11:14

If you choose a through hull installation it will require a different transducer than the standard model. The standard transducer should work fine if you prefer not to poke another hole in your boat. Check to see if a through-hull transducer is available for your selected fishfinder before going that route. I would only install the through-hull transducer during a haul-out.

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Phredde
Navigator

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125 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2004 : 20:13:05

Thanks everyone for your advice, I'll try it again under the Vberth (I tried that once but without water/oil - maybe I'll use the vaseline method or the temporary dam) to see if I can get a reading, then a few other places in case that does not work. I really don't want to drill a hole. But expect to haul out next weekend for a long overdue paint job. Thanks again,

Phredde

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2004 : 21:43:34

The trick to sucessfully mounting a transducer inside the hull is to eliminate all traces of air pockets between the transducer unit and the fiberglass hull.

Mineral oil will transmitt the ultra sonic waves straight through to the solid layup hull and then thru the fiberglass, into the water beneath your boat. I don't believe in hull installations will work in cored hulls.

Although this kind of installation will somewhat reduce the depth range of your unit, it will still work very well.

Air is the enemy here and will stop the transducer signal dead, in fact, when a fish finder "sees" a fish, its signal is really being being blocked by the fish's air bladder which allows the device to detect the fish.

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