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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Seaworthiness of Catalina Yachts

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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2004 : 09:49:24

Friends, I just HAVE to offer another thought on the "heavy displacement" blue water boat thinking...I used to feel the same way, and thought that my "dream boat" was a canoe sterned, cutter rigged, heavy cruising boat with bulwarks, etc.

Then I went to work at Schooner Creek Boatworks in Portland, OR for a while. Steve Rander, the owner, is the best sailor I know. He build wood/epoxy composite sailboats that are light and STRONG. His 70'er, Rage, used to hold the CA to Hawaii record *7 days and change". His thinking, that I think has merit, is that you are SO much LESS likely to see bad weather if you can make the trip in a week during a window, than to spend 3 or 4 weeks in a "Wetsnail". No meteorologist can accurately see weather that far out and one IS likely to see a storm in that much time out there.

No, I wouldn't want a "fall apart" America's Cup type boat for this type of trip, but Rander's composite "Ocean Planet" just completed a single handed Round the World race and came through the Southern Ocean, round the Horn, etc. in great shape.

I want FAST, and strong.....NOT SLOOWWWW and strong.
Get otta da way.......

And Leon, GO FOR IT! Serialize your adventure. I would LOVE to read it....

Gary B.
s/v Encore! SK/SR #685
Vice Commodore

Edited by - Gary B. on 01/29/2004 09:58:40

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2004 : 11:28:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary B.
 ...I used to feel the same way, and thought that my "dream boat" was a canoe sterned cutter rigged heavy cruising boat with bulwarks, etc...I want FAST, and strong.....NOT SLOOWWWW and strong.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hmmmm...a FAST and Strong cruising boat...that's easy...a [url="http://www.sailnet.com/collections/articles/index.cfm?articleid=jkrets0067"]Valiant 40[/url]! It even has a canoe stern and cutter rig.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2004 : 13:19:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

Hmmmm...a FAST and Strong cruising boat...that's easy...a [url="http://www.sailnet.com/collections/articles/index.cfm?articleid=jkrets0067"]Valiant 40[/url]! It even has a canoe stern and cutter rig.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thanks, that was fun.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2004 : 14:35:39

I think the original thread was "can Catalina build a blue water boat?" I think the answer is YES (I like the 38 and 42 very much). However, this answer does not jive with traditional thinking that a blue water boat is heavy, slow, full keeled, does not sail to weather, and is under canvassed. Also, if you read Cruising World, you would conclude that the boat has to cost over $600K and be equipped with every electronic gadget imaginable!

The thread turned into is the C25/250 a blue water boat and we all know it's not.

I just finished reading Don Dodd's Book "Modern Cruising under Sail" and agree with a lot of what he has to say: a modern blue water cruising boat should be fast, sail to windward, tall rig with lots of sails for light air (also deep reefs). These points lead to the conclusion that the modern blue water boat would be fin keeled, with spade rudder, plenty of tankage for water and diesel, and room to live aboard in comfort.

My own preferences are for a "sugar scoop" stern because I'm getting older and need to be able to get in and out of the dinghy with ease. Canoe sterns are not proven to be any better in rough weather, in my opinion and reduce stern bouyancy as well as stern stowage and living accomodations. Also, I will not spend another year living and sleeping in a V Berth! The bow is the worst accomodations on a cruising boat (where are the sailors on a warship?). I want a nice master cabin in the aft part of the boat.

Take a good look at a Catalina 42. I'd cross the Atlantic in it. After I do so, I'll write you a report. Stay tuned.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2004 : 22:25:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary B.
 ...His thinking, that I think has merit, is that you are SO much LESS likely to see bad weather if you can make the trip in a week during a window, than to spend 3 or 4 weeks in a "Wetsnail". No meteorologist can accurately see weather that far out and one IS likely to see a storm in that much time out there.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Meaning 3-4 times as fast?

Are you talking about a sailboat? Regardless of its speed, I'll submit that Murphy's Law says that the slingshot boat will find some weather if it makes a passage. Doug and Ruth will probably attest that, when that happens, the slingshot may be able to withstand it, but the people in it may not be so sure. When you're even "just a few days" from any kind of help or shelter and hit a storm with large, breaking seas, you might feel a lot more confident about the lives of your crew in something that tracks straight, stays upright, doesn't go airborne, and isn't designed primarily to go fast (like NZL82). Averaging 6 knots or 8, you're likely to end up in the same predicament. 18-24 knots...?? Whew!!

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2004 : 10:21:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 According to the boat design categories as defined by the Institute Recreational Craft, I've had my C25 out in Category "A" winds (over 40 knots) and Category "B" waves.

Question: Does this make my boat a B+ or A-?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That all depends on if you are using the new math!

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2004 : 01:50:58

Dave: Rage, the boat I mentioned, has VERY comfortable cruising amenities (real berths, a great galley, several heads) Except for her size, she'd be a VERY fast cruiser, but you'd need too big of a crew. Racing to Hawaii, I think Steve used a crew of 12. She flys a "humungous" asymmetrical chute and reaches like a witch.

Anyway....3-4 times faster? How does 30 knots sound? They saw RACE boats on the Western horizon that started 3 days before them and an hour later were losing sight of them over the EASTERN horizon. I have seen the video they shot that shows the knotmeter on several occasions. Yeah, I mean 3-4 times faster in a MONOHULL sailboat, without canting keels, etc....

I have raced on her when we passed J-35s that looked anchored. 15 knots boatspeed in about 12 knots of breeze? Yup...BTW: She's for sale for $399k, asking.....Take some friends and get there quick!

Done now...no more on this thread, I promise.......

Gary B.
Vice Commodore

Edited by - Gary B. on 01/31/2004 18:25:33

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