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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Proper Fortress Anchor size for 25'

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sailgal
Captain

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USA
400 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/26/2004 : 11:55:31

Quick question, I'm looking at two Fortress anchors (not cheap) but light weight and good specs..the question is:
Fortress recommends the FX-7 for boats 16-27' and the FX-11 for boats 28' - 32'. I've often read that bigger is better for anchors...since I have a 250 WB is the FX-7 the right anchor, or should I go heavier, and go with the FX-11. Price is about $30 difference, but if one is superior to the other that is another story for piece of mind (and sleep) thanks.

Suzie, Tropical Sleigh

WB #619 Sarasota FL.

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2004 : 12:59:09

I think the best way to reply to you is with a few questions and to let you decide.

1) Do you plan on overnighting a lot ?
2) If you encounter a storm or good blow how bad are they in average at your crusing area ?
3) Would you sleep better and feel safer if you spent the extra 30$ ?
4) Can you stow and handle the extra size with out it being a hastle ?

If you said yes to the above spend the extra money and be happy knowing you have what you need to feel confident about your anchor.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2004 : 13:19:49

If 11 is the weight, I'd go with the 11. I feel better with weight on the bottom. I have 50 feet of 5/16 chain and 200 feet of 1/2 nylon on an 11 pound anchor. You should have a backup anchor. I only have 6 feet of chain on the backup. The backup is 8 pounds.

You're in Florida? Keep in mind the plow type anchors work great in mud (like anchoring inside the ICW) - while the danforths are worthless. However, in deep sand, nothing holds better than a Danforth. I needed both types cruising Florida.

If you find yourself getting ready for anchoring in a storm, get both anchors out at about a 45 degree angle off the bow. Let out as much scope as possible.

I loved using a small anchor bouy. This is a orange ball on a light line that is adjusted to be about 5 feet longer than the water depth. The line is tied to the anchor crown. Throw the bouy in with the anchor. If the anchor is dragging, the bouy will be towed under.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2004 : 18:43:17

Good advice given.

I will add, the c250 is subject to terrific loading in very high winds from a micro burst. The boat will sail up and strain with the rode on its beam and the wind on a bow quarter unless its either carrying a riding sail or swinging to two anchors. IMHO... this means going to a size larger than recommended.

And... the problem with two anchors and micro burst... while they often come out of the SW... they can come from any direction making it very dificult to project a great layout for dealing with them.

IMHO, prudence dictates a claw or spade anchor as part of ones ground tackle for dealing with thunder storms. I know... a 16.5 Horizon Claw is a bear to pull up loaded with mud.

Consider the Horizon Claw, and from the money you save between it and the Fortress... buy a snatch block. The block can be easily and quickly lashed to the bow pulpit and the rode led aft to a sheet winch. I've done this successfully to deal with a fouled rode around a snag and it works very well. It would work very well for any one who wants to rely on a heavier anchor but not wanting to break their back getting it up.

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2004 : 20:45:51

Suzie, if you do decide to go with a Fortress I suggest that you go with the heavier version since all Danforth types tend to "sail" across the bottom before they obtain a good set.

Keep in mind that being aluminum, a Fortress will be considerably larger pound for pound than a steel Danforth type and may be difficult to for you to stow.

Personally I've obtained excellent results with a Danforth Hi Tensile and suggest that you look into one of those before you make your decision.

Danforth types are without question the best anchors in sand and soft mud since they bury very deeply (in fact, they will bury themselves past the shank and bury some of your chain as well) and have a very large fluke surface area, but are pretty ineffective in other bottoms, and they don't reset themselves as well as other types if they should break out due to your boat veering under anchor.

For Florida however, I would recommend a Delta plough type or a Horizon Claw, either of which which will hold better in more varied bottoms and reset themselves more reliably as well, should they break out, as your primary anchor, with a Danforth Hi Tensile as a backup.

Edited by - oldsalt on 01/26/2004 20:55:36

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2004 : 21:20:04

I'll echo what others have said... IMHO having two different designs to choose from is better than being stuck with one type that may not hold on a particular anchorage.

Most of the smaller ( 25-35') cruisers I see these days have a Delta and a Claw. The bigger boats I see often have a CQR (Plow) and a Claw. Most of the Danforths I see on cruising boats are used for kedging, picnic or stern anchors. They are not as popular for primary anchors because they can pull out and fail to re-set if the boat veers very much on an anchorage. For a single-direction pull on a sand bottom, they are hard to beat.

Frankly, if I wanted a good night's sleep at anchor, I wouldn't trust a single danforth-style unless I was very confident about the boat not swinging during the night.

I once tried to set a borrowed 7lb Fortress in the middle of a big tidal runoff. I remember watching it flashing and fluttering around down in the water on the end of the chain like a big fishing lure. It never did bite after 3 or 4 attempts dragging it across a mud bottom. Since then, I've been had a bit of a 'no replacement for displacement' attitude when it comes to anchors.

Down in Florida on sand bottoms... your mileage may differ.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2004 : 23:09:07

Suzie,

I'm also located on the Florida coast (Port Canaveral), and I agree with much of what's already been said. On the bow of my 1979 swing keel C-25 I carry a 22# Claw and 20# Danforth Hi-Tensile with about a boat length of chain each. I've thought about getting an aluminum Fortess anchor to replace the Danforth for weight savings as a lunch hook. Even though the point would be to save weight, I'd still be very tempted to go with the FX-11 over the FX-7. The little FX-7 would make a convenient stern anchor or light lunch hook with maybe 5' to 10' of 3/16" chain.

Sadly, ClamBeach and oldsalt are right about the tendancy for Danforth style lightweight anchors to 'sail' or 'fly' if there's more than a slight water flow present when they are being deployed. This flow could be from current, or from the boat being in motion. For that reason, the weight savings of an aluminum Danforth style lightweight anchor would need to be offset somewhat by a prudent amount of chain. If ground tackle weight is a critical issue, you might try only 10' or 15' of 1/4" hot dipped proof coil chain. Note that 10' of 1/4" will about double the weight of an FX-7, and 15' of 1/4" will about double the weight of an FX-11. If significant water flow is present when anchoring, you can help a lightweight anchor to sink and start setting by paying out rode as fast as possible without the slack tangling, or the chain and rope ending up in a pile on top of the anchor. I can usually tell what's going on down there by the feel of the line. The goal is to quickly lower a weight without throwing a whole wad of line after it all at once, but not to fly a kite on a string.

As the others have said, and as I've indicated above, it's a good idea to carry complementary types of working anchors. The modern plow styles, Delta, Bruce, Claw, etc. are known for setting quickly in almost all bottoms, and for remaining buried or resetting reliably after a wind or current shift. However, in soft mud or loose sand, the plows can't match the holding power per pound (efficiency ratio) of a Danforth or Fortress. For those reasons, plow types make good overnight anchors. I have a bow roller for the Claw. It helps a lot in dealing with the weight and preventing the chain from chewing up the rest of the bow when dragging it back aboard.

Regarding Arlyn's well thought out anchor bridle to sheet winch tactic. I've done something similar on several boats from 19' to 27'. On my C-25 I tried it both with a snatch block, and with only a loop of nylon line. The forces generated were impressive. Even though both lines were soaked with water, the sliding loop was so badly melted from pressure after one use that it was no longer trustworthy as a dockline. In selecting snatch blocks, pay attention to the load ratings. Some of them aren't nearly as strong as similar looking bullet blocks.

And all of these thorough answers go to show that in the depths of winter, there is no such thing as a "quick question" about sailing around here!

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2004 : 21:48:45

Chain makes a good anchor a great anchor. When we bought our 30 years ago we went out and tried anchoring, just a mile outside the marina on Lake Erie. I deployed the Danforth with the standard Catalina issue two feet of rusty plastic coated chain and a proper length of line. I forgot the weight of the anchor.

At three am we motored back into our slip, after dragging all around the bay, so we could get some sleep. The next day I went out and bought 100 feet of chain.

Not a few weeks later we rode through a serious squall line, 60+mph winds, at anchor in a bay off Kelley's Island. I had verified the set of anchor with my snorkel, and heaved all the chain after it. We did a 360 around the anchor rifing the storm, sitting in the cockpit in foul weather gear, engine running, ready to go if she broke loose. She never did.

The moral of the story: Get a decent sized anchor, and tie a bunch of chain to it. Of course ever since Lady K. had me install an air conditioner, I'm saving for a half mile long shore power chord before we anchor out again.......

Oscar
250WB#618 Lady Kay on the Chesapeake

Edited by - on

sailgal
Captain

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USA
400 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2004 : 22:01:36

Thanks all for your input

, I think I'm going to shop for a claw...sounds like the way to go (since I do have a danforth knock off that is my lunch hook)since I plan on overnighting when it warms up. Thanks again!

Wishing a quick spring for those of you on the hard!

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
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1038 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2004 : 23:19:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sailgal
 I plan on overnighting when it warms up.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What

are you moving away from Florida?

Edited by - on

sailgal
Captain

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USA
400 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2004 : 15:40:35

You'd have to drag me away from Florida

. BUT tonight we're expecting a low of 35. Granted that may seem warm for the north, but I relocated my life from the north to escape the chill!

Oh well

still beats shoveling snow!!

Side note....does the 16.5 lb Horizon claw fit in the 250 bow anchor locker? Where do you fellas store it if not?

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2004 : 18:14:31

Yes, the 16.5 lb Horizon Claw fits just fine.

I stored mine in a cockpit locker for years... I have more room because I don't have a propane tank in the starboard locker. It never ocurred to me to try to put it in the anchor locker. Last winter while doing spring maintenance, just for grins I tried it and it fits fine. In fact, the anchor locker will hold the 16.5 lb Horizon claw, and a 12 lb danforth and 200 feet of chain and 1/2 inch rode on both. It takes a method to making them work... and I elected to try it this last summer and "weigh" the workability.

I liked it ok but the danforth (not its rode) has to be removed and set aside if the claw is used which is usually the case for me... as the Danforth has to go in last. It would be admittedly better if hanging the danforth from the bow pulpit as you do.

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