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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

topping lifts

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triley
Captain

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USA
251 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/11/2004 : 23:52:04

Topping lifts are important for me because I don't want to have to bring the boat up into the wind to attach the pigtail and I want the flexibility of raising the boom if I need to. Is the Cataline direct kit the best topping lift kit or are there other arrangements that would be better?

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 07:01:40

I tied 1/4 inch line from the mast head and brought it to the end of the boom, through a turning block to boom cleat. Simple, and works perfectly. I don't knowm what cd kit has in it, but I guess I tend to make my own stuff anyway.

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Kidless
1st Mate

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USA
26 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 09:11:26

Triley,
I put the Cat Direct topping lift on our boat,
for me it was well worth the money.
one thing about there kits, you get everthing you need.
and the quality is the best. They even included the drill bits and taps for the parts that mount on the boom.
I still use the pigtail to hold the boom centered if i remove my boom line in the evening but you can raise your boom way over head height for the big BBQ and coctail party on the fantail.
There shipping is faaaaaaaast.

Good Luck,

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 12:22:23

"I don't want to have to bring the boat up into the wind to attach the pigtail"
Tom - you are not attaching the pigtail with the main still hoisted are you? Just don't get clobbered by a big gust before you douse

I don't know what the CD kit has in it, but on "TSU" the topping lift is a 3/16" line from masthead to about 18" above the boom end. Here it attaches to a becket on a block and from here another length of 3/16" is run around the sheaves of a fiddle block with a V-jam cleat attached to the boom end. It's easily adjustable as a sail trim control, and hauls the boom end above people's heads when in the slip. That's about as inexpensive a rig as you can get!

Derek

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 13:02:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 "I don't want to have to bring the boat up into the wind to attach the pigtail"
Tom - you are not attaching the pigtail with the main still hoisted are you? Just don't get clobbered by a big gust before you douse

Oh man ... you've got that right, Derek. I once raised my main without realizing I'd forgotten to disconnect the pigtail ... when a big wind caught my main I just about had a spreader in the water, and there wasn't much I could do about it!

I don't know what the CD kit has in it, but on "TSU" the topping lift is a 3/16" line from masthead to about 18" above the boom end. Here it attaches to a becket on a block and from here another length of 3/16" is run around the sheaves of a fiddle block with a V-jam cleat attached to the boom end. It's easily adjustable as a sail trim control, and hauls the boom end above people's heads when in the slip. That's about as inexpensive a rig as you can get!

Derek

I used Derek's idea for my topping lift, and I do like the simplicity of it. However, I think I'm going to change the clam cleat to a cam cleat with a fairlead ... with just a little "klutziness" the line pops out of the clam cleat.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 13:28:47

If my memory serves me correctly, my topping lift consists of the stock wire coming down from the masthead which ends a foot or so above the boom and shackled to this wire is a small single block. Shackled to the end of the boom is a small single block with becket. The line is secured to the becket, then it goes up through the block on the wire then back down through the block on the end of the boom. The line is then led down the portside of the boom to a block that I simply shackled to an existing cleat that is almost at gooseneck height. From there it is routed to the mast base and then back to the cabintop.

At first, this temporary setup was meant to check routing and block positions, but this temporary setup is now going on it's third season.

Since I no longer use my pigtail, I hook a bungy cord between the pigtail and the ring on the backstay adjuster. This keeps the pigtail from getting in the way and the bungy cord makes the backstay adjuster spring back when it is released.

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 14:05:08

As a proponant of KISS, my topping lift is a line of appropriate length tied at one end to the masthead and at the other to the end of the boom -- works well and never needs adjusting. I realize downwind performance may be sacrificed to some extent, but I think it is very small (especially compared to the KISS value I get with this setup).

I realize this setup would never be acceptable to any racer.

For barbeques, anchorages, etc., the pop-top usually is up, and therefore the boom vang, set as a preventor, keeps the boom out over the side of the boat (i.e. out of the cockpit).

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 15:34:30

Triley,

Look at this link:

http://www.catalina25-250.org/tech/tech25/nyouthal.html

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 17:06:13

triley,

My topping lift setup is nearly identical to Don Lucier's except that I went 3:1, and routed the tail aft along the stbd. side to a camcleat w/fairlead. I like the shock cord retracting the backstay tensioner a lot!

-- Leon Sisson

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2004 : 19:44:44

I have the Catalina Direct topping lift.
The long wire going to the masthead a plastic coated with a harken pully on the bottom, and other nice components. I too like to raise my boom when partying out and barbecuing.

All in all, I am a big fan of every Catalina Direct kit I have ever gotten. It's especially nice for a new sailor (I have only been into this for about 3 years) who needs a little direction. Now that I have renovated a 22, and am in the home stretch in renovating my 25, I would feel better about making my own components, as I'm sure all of the really experienced folks in this association probably do. But you really don't save a lot of money buying the components yourself, but now, I have lots of spare parts so It is easier to do so.
Lowell and Lindsey at Catalina Direct have been so nice, and helpful to me, and bailed my butt out more than once, that I don't mind if they make a few bucks for their great service.
I want quality companies to prosper. There aren't many of them left.

Edited by - on

Steve Shetter
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2004 : 10:07:50

Forgive my ignorance, but in some of the comments in this thread, it appears that some folks are sailing with their topping lift attached. Thus far my only experience with a topping lift has been using a continuous 5/32" - 3/16" line from the masthead to a cleat attached to the backstay adjuster. My first impression was that it was a flag halyard; however, I do use it as a topping lift when in the slip, or motoring on a calm day. I would be afraid to use this light line to support the boom, if I were sailing.

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PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2004 : 10:28:51

A topping lift is essential. Mine runs thru a block at the masthead
and down the mast to turning block and then back to the cockpit. On
the end that stretches down from the masthead to the boom, a block
is inserted before it reaches the boom and another line runs from
the boom back thru that block and then back to the boom thru a
turning block to a cleat. That configuration can be adjusted from
either the boom end or from the coach roof. The topping lift is
necessary to hold the boom while raising the mainsail and it is
continually adjusted according to the point of sail. As the angle of
the boom changes relative to the centerline of the boat, the lift has to be adjusted to take slack out of the line. It may also be tensioned to create a fuller sail. It is essential as part of the
reefing sequence. And as mentioned it may be used to simply lift the
boom higher to get it out of the way, as I do to create room for my
sculling oar loom.

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TomA
1st Mate

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USA
91 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2004 : 10:37:50

Paul, I'd like to hear more about your sculling oar. I've often thought having an oar would be a great idea, but I don't know how to set it up on the C25.

Tom

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PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2004 : 15:30:24

Look up Yuloh on Google or other search engine and you should get
some good hits and tips. My buddy Jim on Hey Jude and myself made
Yulohs. Essentially in two parts, the blade and the loom. They can be
broken down for stowing. I keep mine together and stowed alongside the port berth along with a whisker pole. I've made a brace that fits across the aft portion of the cockpit stanchions and use a trailer ball to set the yuloh in. There are various ways to do that. A lanyard is afixed to the loom and to the deck which helps to make the blade twist as it is swept back and forth. These are tradional type of oars used on Chinese Junks. It can power the Cat-25 along at just about 2.0 kts tho it takes some practice and muscle. We hand shaped
the looms and blades out of 2x4 and 1x6. Jim used oak and he has a
nice radial saw. I did mine mostly with a skill saw and draw knife.
Went a mile or so last weekend in a calm just to practice. Now at least if there is no wind and no motor we are not completely helpless.
There might be more on this in the archives as we've discussed before.

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PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2004 : 15:32:50

oops make that stowage along the starboard side

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TomA
1st Mate

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USA
91 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2004 : 16:05:21

Sounds interesting. Thanks!

Tom

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2004 : 16:31:03

Hi Triley, (interesting name)

My topping lift starts out like everyone else's but after reaching the boom it goes through one of two holes in a 1.5"X5" teak block then down through a small block afixed to the boom's end and leaving ten or so inches slack the lines end passes through the second hole in the wood block and a single stopper knot is tied. To adjust the lift you grab the block and raise it to the height that you want and let go.
We used a similar device when tensioning the lines on camping tents.

KISS it is.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2004 : 16:38:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Shetter
 Forgive my ignorance, but in some of the comments in this thread, it appears that some folks are sailing with their topping lift attached. Thus far my only experience with a topping lift has been using a continuous 5/32" - 3/16" line from the masthead to a cleat attached to the backstay adjuster. My first impression was that it was a flag halyard; however, I do use it as a topping lift when in the slip, or motoring on a calm day. I would be afraid to use this light line to support the boom, if I were sailing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Steve –

You can sail with it still attached, however it should be loosened and allowed to slack while under sail.

dw

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Steve Shetter
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2004 : 10:58:48

Thanks Duane. I am still somewhat confused though. When you say that the topping lift should be loosened, do you mean completely, or just enough for the boom to hang on the sail. The only time that I have tried keeping th toppng lift attached to the boom, was in very calm winds and it seemed to help the mail fill and create more lift (power). Is that an appropriate use, or should I have it completely slack?

Thanks,

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2004 : 11:17:56

Between the topping lift and the outhaul you should be able to shape your main pocket in light air. In light air you want the boom lifted and the outhaul softened. The majority of the time your topping lift will be slacked to the point where it blows back of your roach and has no effect on your ability to harden the mainsheet or the boom vang.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2004 : 13:00:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Shetter
 ...When you say that the topping lift should be loosened, do you mean completely, or just enough for the boom to hang on the sail. The only time that I have tried keeping th topping lift attached to the boom, was in very calm winds and it seemed to help the mail fill and create more lift (power). Is that an appropriate use, or should I have it completely slack?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

When sailing, I slacken the topping lift considerably so that it somewhat drapes alongside the mainsail. I do this because my main has a larger roach and during a tack, the leech would sometimes hang up on the topping lift. By letting the topping lift sag away, the main is now free to tack obstruction free.

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cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2004 : 23:18:09

I used 1/4" dacron line, with a stainless thimble on the upper end captured in an eye splice. The eye/thimble is captured on the same pin as the backstay is captured at the masthead. I think the thimble is important to minimize wear.

Lower end is to a 3:1 tackle then forward to a horn cleat on the boom about 3 ft aft of the mast (further aft puts it too near the rail when the boom as outboard going downwind). Put a "loop" in the line so all you have to do is slip the loop over one horn of the cleat to hold things at the right height for the boom at the dock. Then slip the loop off and with the main close hauled tightly, cleat the bitter end such that the topping lift is slightly slack so the main leech is taking all the tension.

That way you never have to uncleat and re-adjust the lift, and setting it for the "storage" height is also pre-set.... Green crews can also handle this set up too!

Nice idea with the bunjee on the pigtail that someone suggested!

Chuck

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2004 : 20:13:33

Steve, you have described a fixed topping lift, one that isn't rigged for adjustment of its length and I'm not sure that the others have picked up on that. Some boats can use a fixed lift which has its length set just longer than hard sheeted for a beat to weather. It sounds like yours is shorter than that and you are disconnecting when sailing.

Not having a C25, I don't know if the C25 can use a fixed lift effectively. I for one want the topping lift to easily lift the boom so that the leach cringle when setting a reef is easy to draw down and the reef line doesn't have to lift the boom. I doubt if a fixed topping lift can accomplish that.

There are those who reef without setting a topping lift howerver... your preference but IMHO, an adjustable lift would serve better. A great many more boats are rigged with an adjustable lift than a fixed.

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