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Catalina 25 questions continued

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Deb
Deckhand

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2 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/14/2004 : 15:46:04

First, thanks to all who responded to my last question....I'm now looking at a 1983 Cat 25, tall rig, wing keel (converted from swing a few years ago), stated displ. 4150#, ballast 1500#, draft 2'8". Being a first time owner and only 2 yrs. experience, I'm concerned about how tender she'll be and how she'll go to weather, plus anything else my limited experience isn't considering.
Thanks for your input!

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2004 : 15:58:21

All other things being equal, the wing won't beat a swing or fin going to windward, but overall they have a reputation as a good handling boat. Nothing wrong with their sailing characteristics at all.

The tall rig is superior in light air, the only downside I'm aware of is that the boom is carried a bit lower than the standard rig and can interfere with clearance if you want to install a Bimini top.

All in all, a desirable configuration.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2004 : 16:38:57

Where do you sail? How much is the boat? Usually, only a person who cares deeply about their boat would make that conversion, so I would expect the boat to be well taken care of. Does it come with a trailer?

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2004 : 16:43:39

Deb, you don't say where you'll be sailing. A tall rig boat sails great in light to medium winds. A standard rig boat does a little better in stronger winds. But neither of them is really tender. If you are going to be a gung ho racer, the fin and swing keel versions are a little faster and will sail to weather a little better than the wing keel, but, if you are a "regular sailor," the difference in performance among all three versions is so slight, that it really won't matter.

If your sailing venue will be in shallow waters, then the wing or swinger will be better.

Another factor to consider is that the swing keel usually requires a little more maintenance than a wing or fin keel.

Some people are really bothered by the low boom on the tall rig boat, but it's all a matter of getting used to it.

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Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2004 : 16:56:02

Deb,

One of the best ways to cure ANY concerns you might have regarding a C-25's tenderness is to board and sail a Hunter 25 for comparison. After being on the Hunter, the Catalina will feel like a rock. The difference in stability might, probably, mean the difference between a good night's rest, or not, and a pleasurable long-term relationship with your boat, or not. I looked at half a hundred twenty to thirty foot production boats before buying Antares, and the Catalinas were definitely the least tender.

Best of luck,

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2004 : 18:29:42

Hi Deb... To expand on the comments on the boom, the tall rig has 2' taller mast, and a 1' lower boom, for a total of 3' taller luff on the mains'l. TR sailors generally tuck in a reef at about 12 knots, while SR sailors are reefing at about 15 knots. Does that mean it's more tender? It really means that performance is better when reefed earlier, but in light air, she'll walk (not run) away from a standard rig.

My SR boom passes just over my head (5'9" standing) while tacking, while the TR would probably get me in the neck. That's easy to remedy--just sit when tacking... But as noted, the TR makes a bimini a little less useful, since it will be quite low. Some have suggested a low reef point for use with a bimini (raising the boom rather than lowering the main), and then stowing the bimini for racing. The issue I can't speak to there is the placement of the mast gate (where the slugs or bolt rope feed into the slot)--the boom should not be riding at that level.

My recommendation to you as a relatively new sailor is to find a very well cared for C-25, any rig, and if you're in salt water, make it a wing or fin (wing if you want to trailer). Enjoy it for between a few years and forever, and see if you get the itch for something else. With a little care, you'll probably be able to sell the C-25 for what you paid. (However, you won't get back much for the upgrades you may have made.)

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At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2004 : 19:15:08

From your note it appears as if you are unsure as to the accuracy of the ballast and displacement. I have a 1984 fin keel with the original paperwork. It says the ballast and displacement are 1,900 and 4,150 respectively...looks as if you are right on the money. These are great boats, if the price is reasonable and the boat is in reasonable condition, you cannot go wrong.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2004 : 21:04:45

Deb,

As far as tenderness goes, like J.B. said, its all relative. My C25 is like the Rock of Gibraltar when compared to my old Venture 25, but would probably seem like a Sailfish to someone who owns an Island Packet.

With tenderness being a relative term, "What are you used to sailing on?"

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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2004 : 21:21:56

Watch me be wrong here, but the swing has a 1500# keel, while the fin comes in at 1900-ish, right? The factory listed displacement is 4150-ish for a fin and 4550-ish for the fin. I suspect you need to know exactly what the wing replacement keel cost to know the displacement. I would have guessed the wing weighed MORE than the swing keel it replaces. Please illumine or enlighten me.

Gary B.
Vice Commodore

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John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2004 : 09:37:19

Having investigated the swing/wing conversion, and opted to stay with the swing, I believe the wing is somewhat heavier. The lighter swing keel doesn't effect stability, since more of its mass is farther below the waterline. As the boat tips the righting force has more machanical advantage and in the case of the C25 swing stops at about 15 degrees. In contrast our old Cape Dory 25 with a full keel and narrower beam tended to lay over farther. We would often sail with the rail in the water, but at that point she was very stiff.

The various weight disparity I believe, has more to do with making sure that each boat has similar performance. The closer the balast is to the water line the more of it you need.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2004 : 19:23:49

Catalina lists the wing at 1750 lbs. The distribution of weight, due to the wing itself, probably gives it a very similar righting moment to the 1500# swing or the 1900# fin. Neither of the other two keels has as much weight concentrated at the bottom of the keel. That will compensate, to an extent, for the shorter lever arm.

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