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Refurbish a 1980 Catalina 25 or walk away

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jon
Deckhand

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9 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/17/2004 : 20:38:20

I have been offered a 1980 Catalina 25. It had a small cabin fire, so needs re-wiring , some firebreglass repair - mostly gelcoat - and new window seals.Give it love or look elsewhere? The hull, rigging and mechanicals seem fine

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2004 : 20:44:17

Jon, could you possibly post some photos? Then we can help you assess the damage and repair costs. In standard condition, the boat is worth about $6000 plus or minus $1000. If repair costs are even close to that, then pass and buy a used one in good condition instead.

Do you have skills to do the wiring and fiberglass repairs?
Probably the interior needs refurbishing as well.

What caused the fire? Something we all will want to know.

Another option is to take the boat and sell the parts to us on our swap meet. I'd be interested in lots of parts and pieces.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2004 : 21:18:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 
...Another option is to take the boat and sell the parts to us on our swap meet. I'd be interested in lots of parts and pieces.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hmmmm.... When you do that, what do you do with the hull when all the do-dads have been removed and sold off? (What price for a used 1500# swing keel?)

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2004 : 21:28:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 
...Another option is to take the boat and sell the parts to us on our swap meet. I'd be interested in lots of parts and pieces.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hmmmm.... When you do that, what do you do with the hull when all the do-dads have been removed and sold off? (What price for a used 1500# swing keel?)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Bury it and make it a Coy pond.

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2004 : 21:59:24

[quote]Hmmmm.... When you do that, what do you do with the hull when all the do-dads have been removed and sold off? quote]

Another small fire of course! Wait a minute....I didn't say that....

Edited by - Doug on 02/17/2004 22:00:49

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2004 : 06:11:26

Without seeing the boat, our help will be only in general terms. As Jim pointed out if you have the skills to do the work, and the restoration will be a labor of love, then the project is more feasible for you. If you don't have the skills, ask the marina what they would charge you to do the work. That way you get an idea of what the boat will cost you to get her ready for the water.

Also, you probably would want a marine surveyor to look at it, and give you his opinion of the overall boat condition. You could repair the fire damage and still have alot of other stuff to do.

keep us posted as you decide and if you do it, as the project progresses.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2004 : 08:01:16

While everyone loves their own boat for obvious reasons, I am particularly happy that I got an '82. Prior to that year there were several design characteristics that had been remedied by '82. The biggest is the fuel locker. If you have financial options, I would pass, (unless it is free) and look for an '82 or newer.

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2004 : 09:14:55

... I am particularly happy that I got an '82. Prior to that year there were several design characteristics that had been remedied by '82. The biggest is the fuel locker. - Frank

Why was the older fuel locker a design flaw?

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2004 : 09:24:16

Hi Jon,

It depends on what you like to do with a sailboat. Some folks look for projects to cure cabin fever, some like to sail. There was a time when I would jump at the idea of getting something really cheap and let sweat equity pay the price. Thankfully I've passed that stage. I'd rather sail now.

In any event I wish you the very best in your endeavor and keep us posted on your progress.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2004 : 10:28:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Buzz Maring
 ... I am particularly happy that I got an '82. Prior to that year there were several design characteristics that had been remedied by '82. The biggest is the fuel locker. - Frank

Why was the older fuel locker a design flaw?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
My, that was restrained

Having never owned one I can only try to imagine the what it would be like having the fuel tank sitting in the sail locker with the vent in the coaming that was needed for it. An outside fuel locker seems to me to be easier to live with. Less chance of a mess. Easier to clean. Easier to lift. Quicker to get to. I knew zero about Catalina 25s when I bought mine, I have simply thought that I was glad that it happened to be an '82, I am sure I would enjoy it as much if it had been earlier.
I do wonder if the older design makes it easier to get to the transom ladder/OB mount bolts.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2004 : 10:31:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Why was the older fuel locker a design flaw?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">The older design made it possible for gasoline fumes to accumulate inside the boat, although I never heard of any fires or explosions that actually resulted. In 1980 or 81, Catalina eliminated all possibility of that happening by completely isolating the gas locker from the interior of the boat. Catalina would probably say it wasn't a design flaw, but that it was just the way boats were built in those days, and there's probably some truth in that. Back then, industry generally was more interested in selling amenities than in selling safety. Some lawyers got rich by forcing industry to refocus its interests.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2004 : 12:25:20

I'm not having any trouble with the sail/fuel locker on my 78. There is a hatch in the quarter berth to get into it and that's essential.

Catalina made many, many small and incremental design improvements which are readily apparant on Gary's 89. The fuel locker, improved anchor locker, and inside genoa track are good improvements (I have an after-the-fact inside genny track anyways). Plus of course the lead wing keel.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2004 : 14:42:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jon
 I have been offered a 1980 Catalina 25. It had a small cabin fire, so needs re-wiring , some firebreglass repair - mostly gelcoat - and new window seals. Give it love or look elsewhere? The hull, rigging and mechanicals seem fine
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Since we don't know how much damage there is from the fire or what the boat is being offered for, it is difficult to give advice as to what you should do? And like Val said, it depends on how much you are willing to do.

Now generically speaking, and I may be biased since I have one, but I find my 1980 FK C25 to be an excellent boat and I wouldn't hesitate recommending it to anyone.

Edited by - on

Blueye
1st Mate

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USA
26 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2004 : 14:50:28

I recommend walking away, as there are way to many fine vessels out there for sale. IT is a buyers market!!!

Use your time sailing on a boat ..not working on one!!

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2004 : 14:51:03

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Raskal
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2004 : 16:30:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Use your time sailing on a boat ..not working on one!!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well, that's the racing sailor's mentality all over, but let's not forget that boating has a lot of aspects--boats are high-maintenance objects which can prove an enjoyable challenge to the craftsman without any need to actually sail one!

The wiring and other components on our C25's are so basic I would be surprised if the restoration of the one described here would cost any more than $1000 and lots of tlc time. That investment puts the value back into that $6000+ dollar boat and can turn a tidy profit for the tinkerer. I think restoring it would be a great project for someone who wants to pick up skills as they go, as I have on my C25, so I vote for giving it a go! You won't be sorry if you go at it patiently.

Rich Kokoska

Edited by - on

jheard
1st Mate

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USA
49 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2004 : 18:51:15

It depends on the extent of the fiberglass damage. If the fiberglass has melted or deformed, it is a major project. If not, you may be able to just repaint the deck using epoxy paint. Sailnet.net has a couple of tutorials. The window repairs are easy; CatalinaDirect.com sells the parts.

If you are not experienced in boat repair, I would buy a clean boat that just needs some maintenance. That would be a good fixer-upper.

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2004 : 21:32:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It depends on the extent of the fiberglass damage.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's why I think a marine surveyor ought to give you some advise on the boat. His responsibility to you is to let you know the seriousness of the damage, and the kinds of repairs that would be needed. With his report, and skill inventory you could then make a reasonable decision about whether you want to the work, have it done, or walk away.

Edited by - on

jon
Deckhand

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9 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2004 : 21:50:09

Thank you all for sage advice. Thank god it's still winter, the boat is covered with snow and I don't ned to make a decision on fix or flee right now.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2004 : 22:25:05

Here're my thoughts... The maximum potential value of the boat dramatically limits what you should spend on any professional refurbishing, so if you take a quick look and don't know how you'd do the work yourself, walk briskly away. Pay for a surveyor only if the opposite is the case--you should get a trained eye to see if you're missing something big, including things not related to the fire.

There are others out there...

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2004 : 23:11:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com

I think most of us agree that the condition of the boat, i.e. how the PO took care of it, is the most important issue, not what "mark series" it is. North Star is a beautiful example of a Catalina 25 of any year.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Frank,

Yes, I agree that the condition of the boat is an important consideration and not the "mark series".

The reason the "mark numbers" don't matter when considering a C25 is because, quite frankly, they don't really exist. I, like Catalina Yachts, do not recognize these phantom numbers for the C25 no matter how often they are used and I cringe every time I see them. I wince even more when these ficticious designations are used by our newer members who are unaware that these were congered out of thin air and not created on the design desk of Frank Butler.

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2004 : 01:14:22

The reason the "mark numbers" don't matter when considering a C25 is because, quite frankly, they don't really exist. I, like Catalina Yachts, do not recognize these phantom numbers for the C25 no matter how often they are used and I cringe every time I see them. I wince even more when these ficticious designations are used by our newer members who are unaware that these were congered out of thin air and not created on the design desk of Frank Butler. - Don

Well said ... I concur ...

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2004 : 07:16:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com

I think most of us agree that the condition of the boat, i.e. how the PO took care of it, is the most important issue, not what "mark series" it is. North Star is a beautiful example of a Catalina 25 of any year.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Frank,

Yes, I agree that the condition of the boat is an important consideration and not the "mark series".

The reason the "mark numbers" don't matter when considering a C25 is because, quite frankly, they don't really exist. I, like Catalina Yachts, do not recognize these phantom numbers for the C25 no matter how often they are used and I cringe every time I see them. I wince even more when these ficticious designations are used by our newer members who are unaware that these were congered out of thin air and not created on the design desk of Frank Butler.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I like them because I am a Virgo. There must be order in all things even if you have to confuse things to get it!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2004 : 21:59:04

P=#!$ envy! Frank made about four distinct upgrades--knowing about them is useful to all of us. The Mark series is useful, even though I don't have a Mk IV.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2004 : 00:00:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 P=#!$ envy! Frank made about four distinct upgrades--knowing about them is useful to all of us. The Mark series is useful, even though I don't have a Mk IV.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dave,

This has nothing to do with what you refer to as "P=#!$ envy" because I'm more than happy with North Star. As a matter of fact, I get quite giddy every time I think about how much I paid for her.

Yes, I agree that knowing about the design changes is useful and I never implied that we should hide them. I just don't agree with the idea of inventing MK numbers where none exist.

Besides, why do we need these numbers to differentiate the changes when we have the hull number and year? I own a 1980 C25...from just that information one may deduce that it doesn't have a separate fuel tank locker. Does adding MK I after the year make it any clearer?...No!

And what about when someone says, "My 89' Mk IV has..."? To me, that statement is a little redundant because aren't ALL 89' C25's a so-called MK IV. That's a little like saying, "I have a Catalina twenty five C25"?!?

I just think if the C25 needed MK numbers like the C22 or C28, then Frank Butler would have designated them.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2004 : 12:08:28

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