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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Broke my whisker pole-what should I get now?

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PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2004 : 16:43:24

Although I've been guilty of it, it is not wise to attach the whisker pole to the clew or to the bight of a bowline attaching the sheet. It should be properly attached to just the sheet so the sheet can be let fly in an emergency without having the pole smack the forestay. The lazy sheet can be run thru the opposite forward cleat and then back to the cockpit so that the pole may be held firmly in place. That not only prevents skying but also prevents the pole from rubbing on the forward shroud. The ADJ 7-17 from forespare is the proper pole.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2004 : 17:42:29

So then it looks like the Forespar 7-17 is the way to go.
I currently use a 135 on my furler, maybe a 150 someday.

That forespar website sure has lots of good information on whisker poles.

I checked the price from Sailnet and it is $315. Youch. The line control poles are quite a bit more. Or maybe I can mortgage the house and get a carbon fibre one..........

Someone wrote a review of the 7-17 for Sailnet and said that the pole would not stay extended when loaded. Have any of you folks with the Forespar 7-17 had this problem?

Sailnet also has articles on whisker poles too on their website. Havent had a chance of reading them yet.

Thanks again

Edited by - on

eric.werkowitz
Captain

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USA
283 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2004 : 18:04:36

Now that the blue print issue is behind us, I have a couple questions. By the way, I installed a track on my mast for the whisker pole ring.

First, I'm not sure I followed the arguments about why the pole should be level. Arlyn's picture makes a good case for why the pole's mast end should not be lower than the clew (i.e., keeps the pole from skying), but if the in-board end were higher than the clew it would resist even more since skying would drive the clew farther outboard and tighten the sheet.

Second, I've never liked the placement of the pole relative to the shrouds. It always looks like a dismasting in the making. Do you rig the pole between the forward lower and the upper shroud, or try to keep the pole forward of the lower?

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2004 : 18:16:05

I've not used the pole a lot, but yes I have had problems with it
de-telescoping on me. However, that was on a test run trying to
find proper length/setting etc. I think it was more a factor of not
twisting the sections properly before setting the pole. Forespar
specifically advises not to try to set the length while loaded.
AND I was pretty busy because I was singlehanding and running back
and forth from the cockpit to the foredeck. Re the discussion about
setting pole level, Forespar also is specific on that as the pole is
specially built to take the load while set level.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2004 : 18:23:37

"Do you rig the pole between the forward lower and the upper shroud, or try to keep the pole forward of the lower?"
Eric - Steve Milby and I had some discussion of this a while back. He sets between the foreward and upper shrouds. Personally, because we race in a venue where wind shifts and gusts are so common, I need to be able to rotate the whole sailplan forewards (and back), when necessary, by easing the pole and trimming the main. Remember, the pole and the boom should make a straight line and be at 90 degrees to the wind. (I never sail dead downwind - it's the slowest point of sail, but as much as possible keep the wind over the corner of the transom). IMHO Steve's setting position doesn't give the ability to rotate the sailplan, nor can it be eased rapidly in an emergency. I realize that the C22 racers set between the shrouds - but I've been there, done that, sunk the boat!

Sparky - how, if you only attach the pole to a single sheet, do you prevent the pole from sliding back along the sheet? We have a approx. 4" diam circle of 3/16" line attached to the clew and set the pole in this.
Derek

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2004 : 19:08:04

The pole could be set between the shrouds as long as it
was anchored fore and aft so it would not move. Normally, it
would be set forward of the shrouds.

The tension of the lazy sheet and the sheet in use pulling the clew
up to the jaws should prevent the pole from sliding down the sheet.
In some cases on long long runs the pole can be anchored fore and
aft. That's a trick used by long distance cruisers so that the sails
can be doused without fiddling with the pole right away.

Some racers should be able to give other pointers. As I mentioned I have not had much opportunity to use my pole a lot as I usually sail in a pretty good wind here on SF Bay and am almost always singlehanding.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2004 : 20:25:14

Derek, your explaination is the way we did it on Penny and now Penny II. I was also thinking the pole would make a nice bow-sprit for a drifter. Hook it to the mast and the tack of the drifter then control it with the tack sheet for elevation. Matter of fact with the addition of another line at the tack and led back to the cockpit it would allow the luff to be pulled upwind like a spinnaker. Umhhh might try that the next time out in light winds which maybe awhile the way there blowing around here lately (20-25 G25-30). Had so much water blown out of the lake I can barely get Penny II out at high tide.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2004 : 23:46:27

Forespar does not reccomend either making the pole to the clew or a bowline for the reason if the sail needs to be eased forward, the pole won't be forced into a pretzel around the forward shroud.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2004 : 07:50:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Arlyn Stewart
 Forespar does not reccomend either making the pole to the clew or a bowline for the reason if the sail needs to be eased forward, the pole won't be forced into a pretzel around the forward shroud.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Sounds like a job for a spinnaker pole bulls-eye fair-lead aft of the anchor locker and a length of bungie to me.

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2004 : 12:09:23

One other note. That ADJ 7-17 pole just about has to have an
uphaul on it. It's a bit heavy and that gives a lot more control.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2004 : 16:13:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">IMHO Steve's setting position doesn't give the ability to rotate the sailplan, nor can it be eased rapidly in an emergency. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> As Derek said, I set the pole between the forward lowers and the upper shroud. I made my whisker pole out of an aluminum paint roller handle that extends from 6-12 feet. I attached piston clips to both ends of the pole. The pole is about the equivalent of the lightweight Forespar ADJ 6-12, but the paint roller handle only cost about $30.00, and I already had the piston clips. It is also different from the Forespar in that it doesn't have a twist-lock adjusting mechanism. My pole has holes along its length, and when it is extended to the desired length, you push a button that puts a pin in a hole. The pole can't collapse.

Derek needs a longer, stronger (i.e., more expensive) pole because of the way that he sets it, and because he sets it in stronger winds than I do. My pole is good for all but really strong winds. When the wind is so strong that I can't use my pole anymore, you really don't need a pole to hold the sail out. The wind pressure holds it out. When you set the pole between the stays, as I do, the pole doesn't have to be as long or as strong. Derek says, "Steve's setting position doesn't give the ability to rotate the sailplan, nor can it be eased rapidly in an emergency." My answer to that is, I don't have "emergencies." I don't set the pole when there's likely to be an emergency. In fairness to Derek, he says the wind on his lake has extraordinarily sudden and wide changes in speed, so maybe he really needs to do it as he does. Most of us don't sail in such widely and unpredictably variable conditions. The only pole I ever broke was my first Forespar ADJ 6-12. My paint roller has never broken, and if it does, it'll only cost $30. to replace it. A $315. pole would be nice, but, to me, a perfectly serviceable $90. pole (approximately, including end fittings) is better.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2004 : 16:22:32

Hey Steve,
I like your approach to pole making. But what are "piston clips"?
Where do you get one? I'll check out paint poles at Home Despot.
Thanks

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2004 : 16:53:28

Steve - I'm curious, how do you get enough "spread" on a 150% (or even worse, a 155%) genoa which has a 15'+ foot, with only a 12' pole? Mine gets set to 15'9".
Derek

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2004 : 17:34:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gloss
 
. . . Someone wrote a review of the 7-17 for Sailnet and said that the pole would not stay extended when loaded. Have any of you folks with the Forespar 7-17 had this problem . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes and no. The reviewer may need to replace the friction hardware - for which there's a kit. I had this problem when I first used the pole. Discovered I just needed to put a little more umpfh into the twist when locking it.

Good luck!

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2004 : 18:58:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Steve - I'm curious, how do you get enough "spread" on a 150% (or even worse, a 155%) genoa which has a 15'+ foot, with only a 12' pole? Mine gets set to 15'9".<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">When the 12' long pole is attached to the clew of the jib and set between the forward lower and the upper shroud, the jib is held out and aft, and it stretches the jib out as far as it will go.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Hey Steve,
I like your approach to pole making. But what are "piston clips"?
Where do you get one? I'll check out paint poles at Home Despot.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Take a look at a Forespar ADJ 6-12 whisker pole. It has a pin on one end and a piston clip on the other end. I put Forespar piston clips on both ends of my paint roller pole. You have to grind one of them down a little to get it to fit into one end of the paint pole, but it isn't difficult. To attach them, I drilled a hole through the pole and attached the piston clips with a small bolt and nut, and taped over them. I bought the piston clips at a local store that sells sailboat hardware. I haven't looked, but you might be able to buy them from a catalogue. I have seen the same brand of paint poles at Home Despot. They come with either the twist-lock device or with the pin-in-the-hole device. The last time I looked, they didn't have them in the 6-12 size, but I'm sure they can special order them.

Last year that paint pole won the C-25 Tall Rig Nationals for me. Can't argue with success!

Edited by - on

n/a
deleted

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39 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 20:58:32

I'm another advocate for the Forespar ADJ 7-17. I've used one on my C 250 Wingkeel for the past three years and been very happy with it. I have not experienced a problem with it holding its length with the twist lock mechanism. I use it mostly on the 110 that came with the boat, so it stays forward of the shrouds. I clip the outboard end onto the sheet. The only time the pole slipped back down the sheet was when I didn't have it horizontal. The mast end is clipped onto an adjustable track ring. I usually set it about 3' up from the deck for the 110 sail.

I don't use it in winds above 6-8 knots, as I don't often have anyone with steady balance to help out when the wind pipes up.

Mine was much cheaper than 3 boat units. I recall waiting for BoatUS to send me one of those 10% discount coupons before I took the dive. It's only money.

Good luck with your decision.

Alan Therrien
"Moonpenny"
C250K #418

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