Association Forum - OK so Spike is going up the mast

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

OK so Spike is going up the mast

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

JimB517
Past Commodore

Member Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/11/2004 : 00:10:48

This Saturday to run my new halyards. She's <100 lbs I'm >250 - I'll crank her up in the bosuns chair using the 2 speed cockpit winch.

What tools (if any) does she need up there and what is she going to do to get the old wire/rope out and the new V-12 / 3/8 center splice in?

Thanks, hopefully we will NOT need a new webmaster come Monday.

Indiscipline 1978 FK SR #398

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 00:37:43

The original halyard sheaves will have to be replaced, and they are held in with a round head rigging pin retained by a standard cotter pin. Your rigger will need at least a vice grip pliers to hold the head of the rigging pin, and a needle nose plier and flat blade screwdriver to get the old cotter pins out and install the new ones. To run the new halyards, the usual method is to butt the ends of the old and new halyard together, wrap the joint firmly with duct tape, then pull the new halyard through as you pull the old halyard. Do this slowly and carefully, and if it gets hung up, don't pull hard! Back the new halyard down and figure out what is causing the hangup.

Also, if your new sheaves are Nylon or Delrin (plastic), instead of cast aluminum, keep in mind that UV exposure up there at the mast head will be slowly destroying them. You might want to look into fabricating a stainless steel or aluminum sheet metal cover plate to protect the sheaves from direct sunlight. In San Diego's climate, I wouldn't be surprised if plastic pulley sheaves disintegrate in only 6 or 7 years. Since these are at the masthead, they are not easy or convienient to replace, so making a cover plate is worth the extra trouble. Here is a photo of the masthead cover I made for my new boat. It is 22 gauge stainless steel sheet metal safety wided in place with stainless safety wire. You can also clearly see the pins and cotters that hold the sheaves:

Edited by - lcharlot on 03/11/2004 00:52:09

rclift
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 01:28:01

How do you plan to replace the halyard you use to lift our "beloved" Spike to the masthead on? Sounds like some tricky gymnastics going on 35 feet up. I think it would be a whole lot easier to lower the mast then to send her up the mast the first time and sway around for a while and then have her come down for a repeat trip on the other halyard.

Good luck

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 07:21:17

It sure sounds like an exciting way to accomplish the halyard replacement, especially for Spike. If I had to to that, I'd drop the pole and do it on the dock.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 07:23:19

Come on Jim, drop the dumb thing! You da fleet! You will be really glad you did. By the way when I climbed telephone poles in Viet Nam all I carried up was a couple of grenades and a 38. Ask Spike if she wants those!

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 10:13:12

I assume you're not replacing the sheaves... you can't do it using a halyard to hoist since you have to pull the pins on the sheaves that are holding you up.

On my masthead the original 'wire' sheaves were in perfect shape after 25 years... however, there were some nylon spacers between them that were disintegrating from UV exposure.

FYI stuff... I've found that a pair of diagonal cutters are the best tool for removing stubborn or awkward cotter pins. Grip the cotter pin next to the hole, get a gentle 'bite' with the cutters and 'lever' the pin out. I'd send a pair up the mast with her.

Concur with other recommendations, dropping mast is easier/safer than bosun's chair.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 10:35:32

Jim, I've just replaced both halyards without dropping the mast.
Send Spike up on one old halyard, taking the ends of the new halyards with her. Remove the other old halyard and then reeve the new one through the sheave using a standard screwdriver to poke it though (my tails were 5/16" and it was a tight fit). Feed it down to the deck and onto a winch. Have Spike attach the new halyard to the bosun's chair, tape the shackle (or tie a bowline in the halyard around the D-ring of the chair) and belay this halyard. Then she removes the second old halyard and reeves the new one. Remind her that the main halyard reeves from aft to fore and the jib from fore to aft

My foredeck crew went up the mast to do this and he weighs 185.
I'm assuming that your V-12 is 3/16" and you won't need to replace the sheaves. Any size larger would tend to jam.
Derek

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 11:17:37

I vote with those who recommend taking the mast down to do the job. The person has to take all the tools that will be needed, otherwise she has to make multiple trips up the mast. A person who is not accustomed to being up there is likely to have shaky hands and to drop tools and parts onto your deck and into the water. If parts are dropped into the water, somebody has to make a trip to the nearest Catalina chandlery (and, you can only hope that they have the part in stock). (Not to mention the blame and guilt that goes along with such a problem.

) If your halyards haven't been replaced in a few years, you can't be sure that they are strong enough to carry the person's weight. (Most people don't replace strong, reliable halyards.) Lowering and re-raising the mast isn't that big of a deal, and it will eliminate the potential for many big and little problems.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 13:16:50

"The person has to take all the tools that will be needed, otherwise she has to make multiple trips up the mast".
Whenever we send someone up the mast, we tie a messenger line to the bosun's chair and tie the other end to a small bucket. Any extra tool needed is put in the bucket and the masthead person hauls it up...just part of the K.I.S.S. principle.

Derek

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 13:17:39

Yes, the V-12 is 3/16 and Derek promised I would not have to replace the sheaves. The tail is 3/8 and the new lines look great sitting on my salon table (time to get them up there). The old halyards are still working but especially the jib halyard has some meat hooks near the end. I want to get rid of the wire once and for all.

My stainless spreader socket kit is backordered from Catalina Direct. I'll drop the mast when that comes. But it seems like running these new lines should be a simple, 5 minute task, not an all day job like taking down the mainsail, boom (outhaul, topping lift, and reefing lines), forward lowers, dropping the mast, then putting it all back up.

So far I am going with Derek's lines so I'll try his advice on how to run them.

Karen is also going to re-hang my spinnaker halyard while she's up there - I took it down when I was working on my new genoa/old roller furling. We can use this line to haul up the bucket if needed.

By the way, I found our bosuns chair last night and it's in excellent condition.

Thanks very much....

Edited by - JimB517 on 03/11/2004 13:21:19

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 16:39:33

Hey - what line do you plan on using as the spare emergency line that should be attached to her? and What line do you plan on using for the tool bucket....

If your messing with the halyards, its easier just to drop the mast.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 16:40:28

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Jim!

Derek

Edited by - on

Spike
Navigator

Members Avatar

141 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 17:29:30

Hmmm.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 17:45:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Spike
 Hmmm.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Exactly! If the mast is coming down soon anyway Jim can wait a while for his new toys. Derek is obviously comfortable with bosun's chairs, are you? If you have ever seen someone in a bosun's chair I doubt you would want to use it yourself, I hope it has a crotch strap, not all of them do and WHEN the chair tilts forward and down and tries to slide you out the front it is scary.

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 18:10:38

The unfortunate fact that I weigh in at a scrawny 150# has gotten me designated as our local marina monkey. I concur with Frank on the bosun's chair that a front and back crotch strap IS A MUST. With that said, I've been run up 45' and been very comfortable with just one halyard several times; second halyard jammed in or jumped out sheaves. The key to keeping yourself safer when doing this is to 1) tie a line around your mid-section and around the mast (it has to be undone and retied each time you come upon an obstruction) to keep your orientation vertical and to slow your descent in a fall, 2) keep a firm hold of the shrouds with hands and the mast or shrouds with legs and feet to act as descent guides during a fall, and 3) enjoy the view, because it is one-of-a-kind and the reward for overcoming the risk and your fear. ;-) Oh yeah, I refuse to go up on single lines that are over two years old and left exposed throughout the winter or lines where the exteriors look chafed or frayed.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 19:31:41

Come on Frank! I need you to talk Spike into doing this, not scare her away. Yes, the bosuns chair has crotch straps, and we can use the rope around the body and mast idea. I guess we don't need the .38 or grenades, either! (Get rid of a few sea gulls).

Both Amy and Heidi are volunteering to do the job. Amy weighs more than Karen, so shes out, but Heidi is only 85 lbs! Heidi can climb anything and is very strong. Both kids are comfortable at the tops of trees.

I just recently hoisted my friend up the mast on his Cal 28 to replace his upper shrouds. Even with the mast partially unstayed, it was no problem (for me on the deck at least). We got three guys on the rail to heel the boat enough so he could swing out to the spreader tips to put tie in the shrouds and put the boots back on.

If Karen chickens out I can always hoist him (our local marina monkey).

I'm worried about dropping the mast in my slip. Besides all the work, I'll have to partially back the boat in, and angle it or else the mast is going to hit the boat in the finger pier across the way. Meanwhile I'll be blocking the path everyone uses to get to their boats.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 20:03:31

I really believe it's a lot easier to spend a half hour up the mast rather than a half day dropping it and putting it back up. Plus getting it back in column, retuning etc.
I do not understand some people's reluctance to do a simple task like go up the mast...try it - you'll like it!

Derek

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 20:07:12

Fly my son and me out for the weekend and I'll go up, twice!

Edited by - Sea Trac on 03/11/2004 21:26:01

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 20:48:46

I don't see why the old halyard can't be used as a messenger to pull the new one through without dropping or scaling the mast...

As I envision it, you'd have to pull the larger line through the masthead first, but with minimal tension, it shouldn't jam in the sheaves. I sure think I'd try that first...

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 21:02:00

The problem is that the old are wire. I was thinking about this, too, since I plan on replacing mine sometime in the future. The wire really shouldn't be a problem. Bend or bind the shackle side wire just above the eye, cut the eye off, thread some whipping twine through the wire and through the bitter end of the new halyard to bind them together, and then haul it on through. If a tight fit at top is anticipated, then some duct tape could be used to taper the butt end of the new halyard in order to help it through. Done one at a time, you have either the second old or the first new to haul someone up if something went wrong.

Edited by - Sea Trac on 03/11/2004 21:26:25

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 21:05:27

Exactly. You can temporarily join the wire to the rope somehow. The diameter difference shouldn't matter with no appreciable load on it.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 21:32:35

If my experience is any help, the space at the masthead over the top of the sheaves will NOT allow a 3/8" line attached to another halyard to be pulled through from the deck. It doesn't matter how you "tie" them together, you can't get it thin enough. It took quite some effort on the part of my crewman, using a screwdriver, to "persuade" the 5/16" line to feed through - and Jim is using 3/8"!!
Derek

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 22:45:20

OK so Spike is going up the mast

Edited by - on

LeighMarie
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 22:58:46

Jim, I have to say that going up the mast is certainly do-able. While driving to the launch ramp with Leigh-Marie all rigged 2 summers ago I caught some tree branches. Unfortunately I didn't notice it until the she was in the water and I noticed the wind vane goofed up. I had to straighten it out just because...., well, er, ah, OK - it drove me nuts with it not being straight. A guy in the slip next to me in the marina I was visiting gladly hoisted me up in his bosun's chair. I weigh about 170 pounds and he had no problem winching me up and I felt very safe. It's a great view from up there! I guess I would go for it! Go, Spike, Go!

Edited by - on

gnorgan
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
563 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2004 : 00:35:14

Jim, I'll bring my A-frame just in case....

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2004 : 00:56:51

I had stainless thimbles spliced into the new V-12 3/16 line or else I could probably join the small line to the old wire and pull them through somehow.

No way can you pull the 3/8 back the other way through the sheaves.

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.