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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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What's a good way to learn navigation?

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/12/2004 : 13:09:36

Hi there again folks.
During this year's Keys trip my chartplotting GPS kept on losing it's satellite signal. Whether or not the military was messing with it to discourage Hatian refugees (you should have seen the amount of copters patrolling the keys) or my chartplotting Garmin GPS Map176C is in need of servicing, I just don't know.
Next year I plan to sail from Key West to the Marquesas and then Dry Tortugas, roughly 70 miles one way. I don't want to rely on GPS alone. I will buy a backup unit though. I know that you should record and plot your position often too.
I would like to learn some navigation though. Knoxville isn't the center of the sailing universe, we can't even see it from here. The local power squadron gives a course when I'm in the keys, so that's out.
Navigation couldn't be too hard to learn. Isn't it just vector analysis and trig?
So I would be interested in getting some good books, or videos to look at. I'm sure I could fly to some location and pay big bucks for a class too, but I'd rather spend the money on more boat toys.
So lets hear some good suggestions, stories, lies etc.

Frank Gloss
Formerly 89WK/TR
85 Ericson 32-3 shoal draft "Molto Bene"

Edited by - on

Tony Dillon
Navigator

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USA
168 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2004 : 13:53:23

Hi Frank,

There are a lot of good resources on navigation out there. Take a look at the Annapolis Book of Seamanship, ASA has a pretty good book on Navigation listed on their web site at asa.com (a little bit pricy), also check out www.starpath.com, they have books on navigation and offer courses in their classroom, homestudy, and online classes. I have started on their Celestial Navigation class, a little more math intensive than my old brain is used to, but I will get it sooner or later.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2004 : 13:54:06

Frank, when we brought the Big Cat over to Texas from Key West, we anchored the first night in the Marquesas. However, plotting position from 3 GPS units did not jibe with the chart of the Keys from West Marine. According to our depth finder (and our anchor rode)we were in 33' of water. According to the chart we were in 120'... So we took compass bearings on Woman Key & Man Key and that charted position corresponded to our GPS's. I think their chart has errors...

Derek

Edited by - on

thacket3
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2004 : 14:31:25

http://www.boatus.com/husick/n_gpschart.asp

Above is a link to an excellent article about the use of GPS when referencing a chart. The most important item is the fact that in a lot of cases the two have no correlation.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2004 : 14:51:23

The Bluechart chips used in Garmin chartplotters are extremely accurate. For example, when you are sailing past a bouy, or through a channel, you can see you position in real time on the chart. Amazing stuff.
I just don't want to be totally dependent on this system.
Keep the good suggestions coming

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2004 : 15:33:40

One thing you should do even if gps is working well, is to plot your position on a chart every so often. Then if battery fails or the unit goes crazy for some reason you have an accurate fix on the last position. Then it you need to dead-reackon until you can get a reliable fix. Basics of dead reackoning is speed, time and direction.

This link is a course on coastal navigation that someone mentioned a while ago, http://www.sailingissues.com/navcourse1.html, which may help you. I book marked it, but have not started through the course material.

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2004 : 15:36:39

To help practice dead-reackoning, do it on your lake at home, or when your gps unit is functioning. Estimate your position, and see how well your estimate is to your known position as reported by gps. This will help you gain confidence in your ability to dead-reackon your position.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2004 : 16:53:18

Hey Don,
I just took a quick look at the Navigation course you gave the link to. Looks great.
I have to study Pediatric Advanced Life Support the rest of the weekend for a class on Sunday.
I'll start the navigation stuff next week
I hope we never stop learning
Thanks again

Edited by - on

svmoxie
Past Commodore

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USA
331 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2004 : 17:39:04

Frank,

Go ahead and order the book from the Power Squadron too. It is pretty basic and includes a nice plotter tool.

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2004 : 18:15:44

And, there's always the progenitor.

Bowditch's [url="http://pollux.nss.nima.mil/pubs/pubs_j_apn_sections.html?rid=187"]The American Practical Navigator[/url] online version.

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2004 : 09:24:55

Hi Frank,

I sure agree with Tony. Get the "Annapolis Book of Seamanship" by John Rousmaniere. Not only is it an excellent book on sailing and seamanship, it has a very comprehensive section on navigation, dead reconning and piloting.

Then, get a NOAA chart as well as a tide and current atlas for the area that you will be sailing. Use your new found navigation skills to preplot your courses. Don't forget to consider tidal currents and potential weather situations.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2004 : 09:43:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bill Holcomb
 ...Get the "Annapolis Book of Seamanship" by John Rousmaniere. Not only is it an excellent book on sailing and seamanship, it has a very comprehensive section on navigation, dead reckoning and piloting...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The Navigation DVD version of the Annapolis Book of Seamanship series is currently on sale at BOATUS for $27.96.

According to the advertisement,

"Step-by-step how to find your way with classic dead reckoning piloting and today's electronic instruments."

Additionally, if you spend $50.00 in the store you can get $10.00 off and a pair of mini binoculars.

Edited by - dlucier on 03/13/2004 09:45:06

Kip C
Navigator

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USA
243 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2004 : 09:51:49

Regarding the Annapolis book of Seamanship, how does it compare to Chapman's? Or is it not a bad idea to have both?

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PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2004 : 11:34:19

Check out BOAT NAVIGATION FOR THE REST OF US by Capt. Bill Brogdon.
That little text is really useful for everyday practical navigation
in the types of situations we would likely have our Catalina 25s. Drop by one of the big book stores and brouse thru it. Lots of tips and practical shortcuts without getting pedantic.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2004 : 14:58:52

I have the Annapolis book, but didn't think of using it for navigation.
Here in Knoxville they don't have many sailing books in the stores, so whenever someone recommends a good book, I order it from Amazon. If your order is over 25 bucks you get free shipping and no sales tax, plus they generally discount their books 30%. It's lots cheaper than using the marine stores or the navigation supply stores to get books.

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2004 : 12:14:06

Frank:
I am located a little north of you in Cincinnati, not known as a sailing mecca ethier. Despite that fact I recently took the two navigation courses, offered by the U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary here in Cinci, Basic Navagation and Advanced Costal Navigation. A textbook 'Advanced Coastal Navigation' a wokkbook/study guide by the same name and a practice chart all were included in the $40.00 course fee. It was taught by a long ago retired naval engineer and was without a doubt the best $40.00 I have ever spent. Even if you think you know what you are doing on the water you will probably be humbled by this course.

I don't think anybody has mentioned 'American Practical Navigator, an Epitome of Navagation' by Bowditch, N. Which you can download from National Imagery and Mapping (NIMA)website for free. http://www.nima.mil/ This is a very interesting government site with lots of information. I could not figure out where exactly I downloaded Bowditch from but if you have the patients the newest eddition is there somewhere on this site.

The Coast Pilot is also a must have for the region you are cruising in because it will relay any changes, errors, updates etc. for the most recently issued chart you are using. This is also a free download from NOAA
http://chartmaker.ncd.noaa.gov/ this site is much easier to find what your are looking for.

As some mentioned it is essential for a variety of reasons to keep track of where you are on the water, by plotting your position and heading on a paper chart. In the event of a situation you have at least some idea of where you are so you can accurately, quickly and intelligently relay that info to the USCG or other authorities.

Edited by - on

allencl
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2004 : 12:22:35

I also took the two CG Auxiliary courses that Ray mentioned (but in Pennsylvania) and can second his opinion that this is an excellent value. Our classes met in the evening in an aircraft hanger at the local airport. Check this link for course description and location of classses near you:

http://www.cgaux.org/

Cheers,

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