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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

If you had to do it all over again......

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jbruno
Deckhand

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14 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/08/2002 : 12:53:55

I considering buying a boat.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

I would like to know your opinions on new vs. used.

<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>What are the benefits and drawbacks of each? While common sense tells you many of them, what have you encountered over the years which forms your opinion? Are their specific years which were "bad"?, is a new boat's warranty something to be treasured?, Is the depreciation rate so great that buying a boat only a few years old is the best idea?, etc.

Thank you in advance for your advice on this subject.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2002 : 13:08:56

Invest in Real Estate....it appreciates and doesn't break as much and can actually have a positive cash flow from renters...

New is nice, but a few years old is nicer. Exactly what you said regarding the depreciation. You pay a premium to open up the box and pull the boat out the first time.

Just get a good appraisal some people actually sell their boats for reasons other than getting a new one.

dw

Duane Wolff
"The Flying Wasp"
C-25, #401 std,sk
On the Hard for another Winter
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2dc20b3127cce9cd2f45b211a0000004010" border=0>

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2002 : 14:03:14

I guess I've had the opposite experience of Duane. I spend far more time maintaining my house than my boat. Anything I've had to repair on my boat was from incorrect use.
The depreciation issue doesn't need much discussion - other than I'm a bit mystified why something that doesn't rust and holds up so well with adequate maintenance can drop in value as much as boats do.
We have friends that started out looking for a used Catalina 30 but the interest rates were so low on a new boat they ended up with a 270.
The older models certainly are more romantic in my opinion. The newer models were design for less maintenance. I've been accused of enjoying the work on my boat more than sailing it. I suppose that could be because I've grown a bit weary of our inland lake. There are many components available that allow you to upgrade an older C-25, e.g., stemhead fitting, chainplate fittings for lower stays, etc..

Steve Madsen
#2428
OJ(Ode to Joy)

[url="http://catalina25-250.org/photo0.htm/"]<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/photo/ode075.jpg" border=0>[/url]

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John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2002 : 14:26:34

Prices on new boats plummet over the first 3-4 years. Also consider that new boats don’t have electronics or safety gear etc. Most used boats will come with radios and some electronics. Many used boats that are not real old will have decent sails and maybe some extras. Mine came with a North drifter that had never been used. I don’t want to start anything but in the 25’ range the older (pre 250) are more “bullet proof” IMO.

[url="http://www.peregrinefund.org/"]<img src="http://www.peregrinefund.org/images/intro_mid_image.GIF" border=0>[/url]
 John G- "PEREGRINE" C25-#4762 FK

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cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2002 : 16:24:37

I agree with Duane - we bought our '97 in '99 and it came good as new (only sailed 1 season, sat in a field 1 season) and even unnamed. Of course we still got a survey since we were newbies, but esentially we got a new boat already equipped (VHF, fishfinder) and didn't have to take that big depreciation hit. We've had 2 1/2 seasons of sailing and this is the first year we've really had to do an maintenance like rebedding the outboard bracket. Of course, you can get a better deal if you get an older boat, but I'm not sure if that is offset by the maintenance.

Cathy
"Blown Away" '97 C250WK

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causty
Deckhand

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USA
10 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2002 : 16:36:00

"OLD" VS "NEW" -- In my HUMBLE opinion, it would seem to boil down on a weighted average as to what you are comfortable with (accounting for about 40 o/o), and what you can afford (60 o/o). As someone has previously noted, the older models , probably up to around l989 (?), have more teak trim, as well as being more bullet proof!!! Also, the comforts of sailing may be more enhanced by less pain on the checkbook.

Carroll on EMERALD Castine, Me.

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Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2002 : 16:43:37

Don't underestimate all the "toys" you'll want to really enjoy the boat. The binoculars, wet suits, Magma grills, solar panels, gps, dingys and such can really add up. My budget said if I wanted to sit at the bouy with an R&C in my hand, kids rowing the dink around checking the crab pot while I warm up the grill, I needed to look at an older boat.

Doug - #1913 Noeta

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Rick Heaverly 86 C25 5382
Navigator

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Belize
206 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2002 : 17:27:13

i like the layout of the 25 over 250. more traditional looks and a much lower purchase price. but to each his own.

Rick Heaverly

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Alan Therrien
Navigator

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USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2002 : 10:16:53

My wife and I agonized over the same question before buying a "new" C250WK that was sitting at the dealer's as a show room model. It had all the gizmos - pedestal wheel steering, cushions, carpet, even the outrageously expensive curtains. While it was twice the cost of a ten year old C25, my wife reminded me that I would probably rather sail than tinker on an old boat.

I do like a certain amount of tinkering, so I selected my own electronics and intalled them myself. That saved a considerable amount on the final cost. The dealer was very good about letting us work on the boat in their yard, in exchange for continued display use. Because they had the boat on display for some time, we were able to negotiate some savings on the list price. It was a fair deal for everyone.

Both the wife and I are VERY glad we bought the new boat. NO down time for repairs. We got the equipment that WE wanted on the boat. And the final cost was not that bad. I bought a custom trailer from Triad which was cheaper and IMHO stronger construction than the one offered by Catalina. The 250 has a nice open feel in the cabin that we preferred over the C25. It makes those rainy days much more pleasant.

If you like the boat as much as we like ours, and plan to keep it for a while, you will be very happy with a new 250WK. And you will have all your spare time to sail and enjoy it.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Alan T.
"Moonpenny" 250WK #418

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2002 : 12:02:17

Boy o boy, Doug, you paint a beautiful picture.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Don't underestimate all the "toys" you'll want to really enjoy the boat. The binoculars, wet suits, Magma grills, solar panels, gps, dingys and such can really add up. My budget said if I wanted to sit at the bouy with an R&C in my hand, kids rowing the dink around checking the crab pot while I warm up the grill, I needed to look at an older boat.

Doug - #1913 Noeta
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Val Bisagni

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puffin
Deckhand

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16 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2002 : 12:24:45

I've avoided used boats for the same reasons I've avoided used cars. Prior maintenance (or lack thereof) is never truly known and the worry of that critical neglected component going bad at just the wrong time adds too much worry to what should be a fun, maybe even relaxing, experience. When faced with issue, I've opted for a smaller new boat over a larger used one. There are plenty of used 27s out there for the same, or less, money as a new 250, but the new 250 got my vote.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2002 : 19:56:24

I recently purchased a used 1980 Catalina 25 sr/fk and I paid probably less for it than what the sales tax would be for a new boat. My boat came with all the bells and whistles(roller furling, electronics, good sails, 3 year old Mercury outboard,,,,etc) and it is structurally sound. It was a little neglected(exterior teak and overall cleanliness), but nothing is sweeter than sweat equity and pride in a job well done. Additionally, I like the look of the older boats with all of the teak trim and, dare I say, character. It seems that most people who buy a brand new "car" only think of it as new until the first "door ding" or bumper scratch and from then on it's more or less a mode of transportation. I've never bought a brand new boat before, but if I did, that first hull ding or scrape would probably kill me!

Don & Jennifer, Northstar
C25 SR/FK

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Bristle
Admiral

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USA
834 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2002 : 23:45:46

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I've never bought a brand new boat before, but if I did, that first hull ding or scrape would probably kill me!
Don & Jennifer, Northstar
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

What'll really kill you is when the brand new boat LEAKS--either from the top or the bottom, who knows... Just ask the C-250 people! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 SR-FK #5032 "Passage" in CT

Edited by - bristle on 02/28/2002 14:15:56

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Peregrino
Deckhand

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USA
17 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2002 : 10:42:48

Bought an '87 25sk a couple of years ago. Prev. owner had equipped it with everything you could think of: roller-furling, solar cells, elec. start motor (nearly new), depth finder, radios, stereo, etc., etc.

It's been nothing but wonderful; MUCH less expensive than a stripped new boat. Good thing the prev. owner added all that stuff; I usually hurt someone when I get very near tools of any sort.

Steve Teeters
Cat25 '87, SK

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Nancy Cole
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2002 : 19:24:26

Greetings

I come from the 'old boat' side of the debate. But I also buy used Volvo wagons. I hate the big depreciation bite but more than that I hate the rash I get when I have a big car/boat payment each month. I'm a freelance writer and can't always count on steady income. Having said that, I bought a '78 C25/FK. I bought the boat for $4K. Very sound but very beat up. I've spent twice that and have really reached the end of my major expenditures. I had the hull Awlgripped; I ordered new sails for the season,bought a new motor, bought PFDs, instruments, batteries, lines, fenders etc etc.

With my 20/20 hindsight, I would not have bought a boat that needed so many little things. But I have enjoyed every minute of learning about my boat and trying to make it as seaworthy and seakindly as possible. And the bottom line is that I've been sailing for a year. I absolutely have plans for a bigger boat. So I have no regrets - just a lot of lessons learned.

Regards

Nancy Cole

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Bristle
Admiral

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USA
834 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2002 : 17:25:42

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I usually hurt someone when I get very near tools of any sort.

Steve Teeters
Cat25 '87, SK
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Steve: After reading about all these guys with their Dremmels, grinders, routers and such, it's nice to hear that from another sailor! I'm OK with drills, wrenches, and screwdrivers--although I wince as I drill into fiberglass!

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 SR-FK #5032 "Passage" in CT

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2002 : 22:04:48

Suspect that I won't add much, but I'll add a few words.

Bought a new 22 many years ago. When I went to sell I had trouble getting what I thought it was worth, considering what I'd put into the boat and allowing something depreciation.

All my other boats have used boats, and came fairly well equipped. And, as I've tinkered, I've added the few things that I wanted to make the boat mine. But didn't need to add as much as with a new boat. But, with an old boat comes an old motor, old sails, and they need to be replaced sometimes, and that would happen sooner with a used boat than with a new one.

all in all I would expect, if I were doing it again, I'd buy a good used boat, rather than a new one. Primarily because of financial considerations.

Don Peet
C25, 1665 osmepneo, std, wind
Schenectady NY

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Bristle
Admiral

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USA
834 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2002 : 10:46:24

One other reason for buying used: They don't make some of the best boats out there any more--e.g., Cape Dorys and Catalina 25s!

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 SR-FK #5032 "Passage" in CT

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