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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Tow Rig

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bud
Deckhand

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USA
18 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/27/2004 : 22:22:26

I know this have been discussed before, but age seems to make me forget . In regards to towing a 25, what seems to be the best rear end ratio, and long wheelbase verses short wheelbase. I am thinking aboout buying a new truck (Dodge Quad Cab 4x4 with 5.9l HO engine and automatic trans, any opinion or suggestions.
Thanks in advance
Bud

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2004 : 22:31:55

Well, there's no question that long wheelbase gives you more stability for towing. As far as engine/transmission choices for heavy duty pickups, I'm a believer in going diesel. The new generation diesels are very drivable, quieter, smooth and have all the power you'll ever need.

With the price of gas going up every day, they make more and more sense. I get 17 to 22 mpg from my 7500 lb diesel 4x4, I couldn't get half that mileage with a gasser.

I'm also a fan of manual transmissions in tow rigs... I've heard too many horror stories about fried automatics to 'go there'. The Allison transmission available in the new GM products may be the exception.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2004 : 00:39:27

Bud,

Long wheelbase is a huge safety advantage when towing long heavy loads. You'll love having a packrat cab.

I've almost always owned manuals because I refuse to pay extra for an automatic, but I believe that a properly setup automatic can tow reliably. that's not the same thing as saying off-the-lot stock automatics are properly setup. At the very least, a towing automatic needs a huge cooler, and a valve body tuned to shift with authority. Just say no to wishy washy shifting under load. Talk to your local hot rod transmission builder, and see what they say about towing.

And while I'm picking on stock equipment, let me suggest getting shocks so stiff they make the salesman wince. You don't need a truck that handles like a partially swamped boat when you've got a real 3-ton boat behind you. Last time around, I found some slightly pricy aftermarket shocks that feel comfy in the middle 20% or so of their travel, but stiffen up quickly outside of that range. The result is a pleasant highway ride, but body sway in turns, over uneven surfaces, etc. is brought up short before it gets up any momentum.

Optimum rear axle ratio is dependant on so many other variables that I'd go with what the builder suggests for how you're planning to use the vehicle most of the time.

I don't have enough experience with diesel vs. gas to offer an opinion. In fact, I'm fresh out of opinions, so I'll stop here.

-- Leon Sisson

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2004 : 08:12:12

I'll second the opinion on long wheelbases. It's the way to go. If you get an extended cab pickup you will get the long wheelbase.
The towing package I got with my Silverado has a heavy duty radiator, receiver hitch, and electrical plug, and the option was about 300. You couldn't get a receiver installed for that much.
I recently had an additional rear leaf spring added at a custom spring shop for about 350. It made a huge difference in ride.
Another difference in ride and handling was the purchase of Michelin truck tires, load range D (maybe it was C). It reduced sway over
my stock Firestone POS tires which came with the truck.
I just took a trip to the Keys from Knoxville with my 4wd Silverado with 5.3 liter gas engine and got 8.5 mpg, and had to but premium to eliminate valve chatter in the mountains, mid grade worked in flat Florida. I went about 70 mph too. Of course I have a mucho deluxe trailer
The silverado automatic has a tow/haul mode for the automatic which makes for more positive, less squishy shifts, but it doesn't change shift points. You would think that with computers controlling the automatic they could do that.
I wouldn't even consider anything but 4wd as some ramps are steep and slippery. I have seen many vehicles with 2wd slip and have to get pulled out.
Since I only take a long trip twice a year, I really don't want the smell and noise of a diesel. I have never heard a quiet diesel. That's my opinion, I may be wrong.

Edited by - on

tmhansen
Captain

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USA
397 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2004 : 03:13:22

Bud , I am no expert but I will add my 2 cents. I echo what Frank said regarding 4x4. Long wheelbase make sense - its physics. We thought about diesel but decided on Gas. The manual for our truck says that the tow capacity is higher with our 454 gas than the diesel option. It seems to counter what we hear. It may be that the diesel weighs more and so the builder reduced the tow capacty by the added wieght. I do know I only wish I could get 22 MPG! Clam is right we get about 10 to 12 mpg. A fill up is painfull! We bought a 3/4 ton suburban since we have a family with lots of toys to haul around or friends too. I can not imagine trying to tow with a manual transmission. I have to very slowly and carefully manuver my boat into my side yard. I only have about a foot between the eave of my house and the rail of my boat. In the process I have to back up the curb with the truck.

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2004 : 08:42:12

Diesel is most definately the way to go. I like the Cummins engine in the Dodge trucks because the in-line 6 is much easier to do routine maintenance on than the V-8 in the Ford diesels. I wouldn't buy a Chevy diesel, at least not this year - the Duramax diesel is a new design, and I tend to stay away from new engine designs until they have some history established. Routine maintenance consists of oil changes and fuel filter changes, and these filters are easier to get at on the Dodge. You will get about double the fuel economy of a gas engine when towing a Catalina 25, and the diesel will be better able to handle the load. Diesel gives much better compression braking on downgrades. Get the long wheelbase truck, it will be a lot more resistant to jacknifing in a panic stop situation. As for the transmission, I don't trust automatics in heavy-duty towing applications. Why do you suppose that almost all 18-wheeler big riga have manual transmissions? It's not because the drivers love rowing a 10 or 15 speed non-synchromesh gearbox. It's for strength and durability. The manufacturers just don't seem to know anymore how to build an automatic that will last more than 50K miles. Not like the old Ford C-6 and Chevy TH-400 from the 1960's and 70's that you could count on for 150 thousand miles with reasonable care.

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2004 : 09:28:40

I'll concede to Larry that a Diesel is superior to a gas engine as far as towing goes.
Since I'm a single guy with only one vehicle I can't imagine picking up a date and taking her out to a fancy restaurant with a noisy smelly diesel. I have an upgrade Chevy with leather reclining seats etc. (yuppie truck)
A good friend of mine who went with me to the keys knows a lot about diesels and he is a really big fan of them. He drives an older ford diesel dually. He knows how to work on engines too, trucks, tractors, etc. He knows a parts guy with Ford. The parts guy says the new Ford pickup Diesel is a POS. Parts keep failing in the engine and Ford is continually upgrading the parts. He has a hard time keeping up with what part has been upgraded.
So I also agree with Larry about not getting an engine in the first year.
But I'll still stick to gas

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2004 : 09:50:45

For a few years in the mid-90's, I worked at AM General's engineering and design facility in Livonia, Michigan. Most of my time there was spent working on both the civilian and military versions of the HMMWV or Hummer as its called in the civilian world.

Anyway, the Hummer is rated for 12 years of industrial use(vice 4 years for a comparable Ford/GM/Dodge truck) and is currently capable of towing 8,000lbs. The important fact is that all Hummers, military and civilian, utilize a GM diesel engine and a GM automatic transmission which tells me that if an automatic transmission is good enough for the US Army, then it should be good enough for towing a boat.

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