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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Flag Etiquette

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jmeadows
1st Mate

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52 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/19/2004 : 21:03:01

I fly a U.S. flag from a stern staff and want to add my club burgee to my starboard spreader.
My question is: do I have to add a 2nd U.S. flag above my burgee?

I don't want to look like a dunce out there

Jim Meadows
"Aloha Friday" (for sale) Sold
1989 Tall Rig - WK
Lake Pleasant, AZ

Edited by - on

zebra50
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2004 : 21:17:31

I fly my US flag from a stern staff also, and my club burgee on the starboard spreader, along with the National 25/250 burgee above it. Sometimes I will fly a couple of other burgee from clubs I have visited below my club.

I dont think you will look like a dunce at all.

How is lake Pleasant? I went to school in AZ in Phoenix and Tucson, family still lives there. Love the place

Edited by - on

jmeadows
1st Mate

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52 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2004 : 21:43:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by zebra50

How is lake Pleasant? I went to school in AZ in Phoenix and Tucson, family still lives there. Love the place
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Its not bad almost 90% full, nice marina a little on the high $$$
About the right size for a 25' to 28'
The best of sailing to coming to a close however.
Summer is a different story, can be a little on the hot side out there
I was born here, grade school, high and ASU
If you ever get back this way look me up and I'll take you out

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2004 : 21:47:19

If you have Chapman's, there's a lot on flag etiquette for boats. It shows that you're fine.

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2004 : 23:59:03

I'm afraid that I don't have Chapman's, and I do have a burgee etiquette queston. (Thanks, Jim, for reminding me!)

I intend to fly a yacht ensign and Colorado state flag from the backstay, a National Association burgee and Treasurer's burgee on a starboard halyard, and an Oklahoma state flag (foreign nation courtesy flag inside joke regarding my refusal to be assimilated) and a Jolly Roger (inside joke regarding my being a beer pirate) on a port halyard. I believe all burgees are traditionally flown only to starboard, especially foreign nation courtesy flags, but I'd prefer not being completely starboard heavy.

What say ye? Given that I'm on a lake in the middle of nowhere, and nearly all alone most of the time to boot, should I even concern myself with etiquette?

Edited by - on

bnpirate
1st Mate

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33 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2004 : 09:32:14

I'm not sure if this is correct but in my marina most boats fly the US flag on the stern, all other "official" flags (state, yacht club ect.) to starboard and the "fun" flags (jolly rodger, cocktail, ect.)to port.
brian

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2004 : 13:26:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Antares
 I'm afraid that I don't have Chapman's,...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You WHAT?? Well, I guess all alone on an inland lake in the middle of nowhere...

For anybody else, I'd say Chapman's should be a required accessory for every boat--sail or power. I'm about to review mine in preparation for the new season. This old brain doesn't retain all of that stuff like it used to.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2004 : 15:44:20

The U.S. Flag (or the Yacht Ensign) is flown either from a staff on the stern or from 2/3rds up the backstay. The Yacht Ensign is only flown in domestic waters. From the starboard spreader are flown the State flag, Yacht Club burgees and officer's flags. (If an officer's burgee is flown, then the State flag should be taken down. Courtesy flags fly from the port spreader (and it is bad etiquette to fly any other country's flag while in U.S.waters). IMHO the "jolly roger" should NEVER be flown - it's an "insult" flag.

Derek

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2004 : 16:02:45

A foreign flag may be flown when a person from that country is aboard.
Same rules. On starboard or below American flag on main leech.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2004 : 17:44:11

We use our backstay to fly our American flag, rather than a pole on the stern. It keeps it up and out of the way, and when running downwind is a great telltale. May not meet the "rules" for having the flag 2/3s of the way up if not on a flagpole, but it sure works for us.

Stu

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2004 : 13:22:18

I've hashed this subject over a number of times with sailing friends.
The ensign or national flag can be flown from a staff on the stern or from the backstay. A club burgee is supposed to be flown from a "pigstick" or staff at the mast head. This is the traditional method. I'm not sure about the placement of other burgees, state flags etc. I'm not close to my Chapmans.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2004 : 10:14:53

An additional excellent source for flag etiquette is "Reed's Nautical Comanion" (the "Reed's Nautical Almanac" folks). This book is full of wonderful nautical information - Regs, navigation info, communications, seamanship, safety, weather, etc.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2004 : 17:55:58

PS. The USA ensign should only be flown when your aboard your vessel. I've noticed lots of people leaving their flags up at marinas while unattended. But I expect that started after 9-11 to show patriotism and so I would not raise my voice in opposition. However I've learned that your ensign will last a lot longer if only flown while aboard. I fly mine off the backstay using those little springy clips and use the boat hook to push it to the proper 2/3s of the way up.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2004 : 16:36:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">and it is bad etiquette to fly any other country's flag while in U.S.waters<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Unless of course you hail from the other country!

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2004 : 17:50:50

Flag Inventory

All boat owners should have on board an inventory of the proper flags and signals. The following is a list of suggested flags.

Ensign (mandatory)

The Yacht Ensign of 13 stars encircling an anchor was established by Congress in 1849. Also, the National Colors (traditional Stars & Stripes) may be displayed in lieu of the ensign, particularly in foreign waters.

Union Jack (optional)

A rectangular flag of the union of 50 stars on a blue field.

Yacht Club Burgee (mandatory if a Yacht Club member)

Usually a triangular or swallow-tailed pennant which represents the owner's yacht club.

Association Burgee (mandatory if C-25 Association member)

The Catalina 25 International Association Burgee may be flown in place of the yacht club burgee or beneath a yacht club burgee.

Officers' Flags (mandatory, if applicable)

A rectangular flag which represents the rank of the yacht club or association officer. Four flags are generally recognized in yacht clubs: Commodore, Vice Commodore, Rear Commodore, and Fleet Captain.

Private Signal (recommended)

Usually a tapered, swallow tail pennant, but sometimes a rectangle or triangle. The tradition of the private pennant signal, or "house flag," currently used dates back to the 18th and 19th century when the sailing ship lines were at their peak. Many line owners were yachtsmen and carried their "house flags" to their yachts. Many members of the older yacht clubs have "house flags" that have been passed down for generations. If a member does not have a private signal, one is recommended that is both simple and timeless in design and easily recognized from a distance to insure its continued use for future generations. Traditionally, initials were not used.

Other Signals

Owner Absent (recommended): A dark blue rectangular signal. When hoisted, it can often save the frustration of rowing across the cove or harbor only to find the owner gone ashore.

Owner Absent, Guest Aboard (optional): A rectangular dark blue signal with a white diagonal stripe starting from the upper corner at the hoist.

Owner at Meal (optional): A white rectangular flag for those who care to dine undisturbed.

International Code Flags (optional)

A set of these signals is both practical for cruising and necessary for dressing ship. May be displayed for signaling using the "International Code of Signals" for definition of the codes.

Time

Yachts and shore stations shall make colors at 0800 and at sunset. When making colors, the Yacht Ensign or National Colors is hoisted first, followed by the Club or Association Burgee, club officers' flags, and private signals, respectively, and lowered in reverse order. The Union Jack may be displayed on a bow staff when at anchor on Sunday, holidays, or when the vessel is dressed.

Note: Yachts that will be unattended at sunset should make colors before leaving.

Routine

The tradition for over the past 100 years in yachting is that the Club (Association) Burgee be displayed on the bow staff or the truck using a staff or "pig stick." The reason for these locations is for maximum visibility under sail, as well as at anchor.

In recent years, yacht clubs have adopted the starboard spreader as an alternative location for the Burgee to accommodate yachts whose trucks are encumbered with wind indicators and electronic gear. However, the Burgee must be hoisted to the spreader (or "two-blocked"). Other flags may be hoisted beneath the club Burgee, in the following order: Association Burgee (if a yacht club Burgee is also being flown), Officer's Flag, Owner's Flag, other message flags.

Yachts at anchor must display the Ensign on a staff placed in a socket located on the starboard stern rail or pulpit as close to the center line as feasible.

Size of Flags

All flags should be of the proper size for easy recognition and identification.

Yacht Ensign or National Colors

The fly (horizontal direction) shall be a MINIMUM of one inch per foot of overall length of the yacht, with the hoist (vertical direction) equal to two-thirds of the fly. Length overall should include bow platforms for better proportions. For the Catalina 25/250, its L.O.A. is 25 feet, therefore the minimum fly dimension is 25 inches.

Burgee, Private Signal, Owner Absent, Owner at Meal, Guest, and International Code Flags

The fly shall be a MINIMUM of one-half inch per foot of the height of the highest truck, measured from the waterline, and with the hoist two-thirds of the fly.

Dressing Ship

On the Fourth of July and other special occasions, yachts may dress ship when at anchor. The International Code Flags are displayed from the waterline forward to the waterline aft, using weights at the ends in the following order arranged to effect color patterns throughout:

Starting forward: AB2, UJ1, KE3, GH6, IV5, FL4, DM7, PO 3rd repeater, RN 1st repeater, ST0, CX9, WQ8, ZY 2nd repeater.

So now you know......

(And yes, that is a club burgee under the starboard spreader...under the port spreader is a Boat US flag. The etiquette does not provide for paying respect to an organization that fights the bureaucrats on our behalf...oh well)

Oscar
250WB#618 Lady Kay in Florida, USA.

Edited by - Oscar on 03/29/2004 18:08:18

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