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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Swing Keel Cable Replacement

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albert
Captain

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USA
262 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/30/2004 : 21:55:52

I'm getting ready to replace my keel cable. I'm planning on purchasing 7 x 19 strand 1/4" cable by 10 feet and attaching a swageless fitting at the end. From what I've read regarding cable failure, it appears that the cable pulls out of the swaged fittings. Swageless fittings should prevent this. (BTW, I've checked and they work with 7x19 strand).

See article describing benefits of swageless at http://bosunsupplies.com/GoodOldBoatQuickAttach.CFM

Any ideas what the end fitting looks like?

Is it an "eye terminal" Suncor brand http://bosunsupplies.com/products2.cfm?product=S0761
or
a "forked terminal" Suncor brand http://bosunsupplies.com/products2.cfm?product=S0762

See also Sta-lok brand: http://www.stalok.com/parts.asp?family=1xImperial

Constructive criticism is welcome. I'd rather make and correct the mistake on "paper".

Albert Iturrey
al@comhertz.com
Abacus 1984 C25 #4679

Edited by - albert on 03/31/2004 00:27:07

Steve Kostanich
1st Mate

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88 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2004 : 23:19:05

Albert,
DO NOT use 1X19 for a keel cable, it is in no way flexible enough for the job. You want 7x19. 1X19 is for standing rigging.

Steve Kostanich C-25 Equinox 1119 sr/sk

Edited by - on

albert
Captain

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USA
262 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2004 : 00:09:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Kostanich
 Albert,
DO NOT use 1X19 for a keel cable, it is in no way flexible enough for the job. You want 7x19. 1X19 is for standing rigging.

Steve Kostanich C-25 Equinox 1119 sr/sk
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Missed that! Thanks. I've corrected it in the original post.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2004 : 01:00:11

albert,<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Any ideas what the [stock cable] end fitting looks like? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">The swing keel cables I've been getting from Catalina Yachts come with a swaged fork end. The original attachment point at the keel was a one-piece eye-bolt (3/8"ID, 1/2-NC in keel). The upgraded 3-piece keel attachment hardware has a fork wide enough to straddle the Catalina Yachts swaged fork cable terminal.

Good luck, and please let us know how it goes!

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2004 : 09:38:23

I wonder if moving up to 5/16" cable would work... (my guess is yes).
Unless I do the wing conversion next fall, I'll give it a go myself.

Edited by - on

Lindsey51801
Deckhand

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1 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2004 : 15:18:31

Hi Everyone,
Just thought I would leave some input regarding the keel cable and swaged end fork fitting. The reason a lot of keel cables break at the connection point of the swaged fitting is if the boat is on a mooring and the keel is in the down position, and if there is any slack in the cable the keel will keep moving and twisting at the fork which is why is can sheer it right off or even pull it out of the fork fitting. Anyway, just thought I would give a little advice.

Happy Sailing,
Lindsey

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2004 : 19:20:28

Funny you should ask Albert. I was running the exact same idea through my head today. I pulled my keel cable out yesterday. The fork opening is 5/16" wide. Depth of the fork opening is 1 1/2" from the end of the fork to the bottom of the throat. Cable Dia. is 1/4" 7x19. The pin is 3/8" x 1"long.
I noticed the new cable is $49.95 from CD. Tried to order it today but they were closed.

If you need to see anything else, let me know, the cable is laying on the work bench.
Dan

Edited by - on

Scotd
Navigator

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USA
136 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2004 : 20:00:50

I just ordered the Keel Cable and Keel Ball from The Anchorage, Lyons Colorado.
http://www.marina42.net/cgi-bin/p/m42p-home.cgi?d=the-anchorage

Cost $54.33 including Shipping.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2004 : 20:34:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Scotd
 I just ordered the Keel Cable and Keel Ball from The Anchorage, Lyons Colorado.
http://www.marina42.net/cgi-bin/p/m42p-home.cgi?d=the-anchorage

Cost $54.33 including Shipping.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I came within hours of buying a boat from The Anchorage, they were wonderful people to deal with. Your price reminds us all that Catalina Direct DBA The Foredeck is really nothing more than a very well run Catalina dealer and the prices on many things are very similar to local dealer pricing.

Edited by - on

Mark Loyacano
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2004 : 00:15:11

While changing cables, have you given any thought to upgrading to the new style keel lifting bracket?

Edited by - on

albert
Captain

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USA
262 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2004 : 00:53:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mark Loyacano
 While changing cables, have you given any thought to upgrading to the new style keel lifting bracket?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I plan to change it also. How hard do you think it'll be to remove the old one?

Edited by - on

albert
Captain

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USA
262 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2004 : 01:02:27

While reading up on different grades of stainless steel, I learned that to prevent rust stainless needs oxygen. There's little oxygen available to the stainless keel fittings underwater; therefore, they rust, then fail. Starts in small cracks. Sounds like the type of end fitting is not the cause of the real problem. The problem is the lack of oxygen needed by the stainless steel to fight rust.

I keep my boat in seawater with the keel in the retracted position. I've got shorepower. I was wondering if I could just connect an aquarium "airstone" to an aquarium air pump to feed oxygen to the underwater stainless steel. Problem: how to run the small air stone and hose so that it spills its bubble stream over the end fittings...?

BTW, how much of the stainless is underwater when the keel is retracted?

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2004 : 10:16:21

IMHO follows... (perhaps slightly more than IMHO)

"There's little oxygen available to the stainless keel fittings underwater"

There's plenty of oxygen in most bodies of water. (unless you see dead fish floating around)

My (good quality) underwater 316 stainless is shiny and bright. The corrosion problem occurs down INSIDE the crimped fitting (or cable itself) where there is little opportunity for O2 exchange/renewal. (stagnant) Your air bubbler probably won't do any good... the oxygenated water can't get in there to renew the O2 supply.

One of the advantages of the Sta-lok style terminals is that you can fill the inside of the terminal with sealant to keep water out in the first place.

"Starts in small cracks"

Absolutely correct. Cracks form a point of attack for the ions in the seawater.

My belief is that if the stock fitting is over-crimped it produces micro-cracks in the stainless cable strands. This provides a starting point for the corrosion. It may also be the explanation for the posts that go something like..."the original keel cable lasted XX years... the replacement failed in 8 months in the same body of water on the same boat".

Full IMHO turned on... I think that the last paragraph summarizes what often happens in these failures.

Edited by - on

Mark Loyacano
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2004 : 10:41:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by albert
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mark Loyacano
 While changing cables, have you given any thought to upgrading to the new style keel lifting bracket?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I plan to change it also. How hard do you think it'll be to remove the old one?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It isn't too hard, Albert. If the old eyebolt doesn't want to turn after applying reasonable effort, apply heat to the area. I used a small propane torch. The new style lifting bracket will not fit into the same area without removing a little material. I used a hack saw and cleaned things up with a grinder. It was a messy job, as I recall.The new keel bracket will come with instructions for proper installation.

Edited by - on

albert
Captain

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USA
262 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 01:24:32

I guess that my original idea to use a swageless fitting should work.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I used a hack saw and cleaned things up with a grinder. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Would a Dremel cutting wheel work?

Edited by - albert on 04/14/2004 01:27:02

Mark Loyacano
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 09:27:45

You can try a Dremel wheel, Albert. If it doesn't work you'll soon know it. That "iron" keel is really tough. My grinding wheel was attached to an air driven drill. If the dremel isn't working just use a small grinding stone attached to your drill.
Shave a little ... fit the bracket...shave a little more...stop when it looks well seated. When the bolt is installed, the bracket (and bolt head) needs to sit flat. The instructions will tell you about torque and thread locker.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 19:02:00

For what it is worth... I bought a new fitting but when the old one was unwilling to budge I decided that if it ain't broke don't fix it. My bracket awaits another day.

Edited by - on

Scotd
Navigator

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USA
136 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 21:11:17

I got my parts today, ohhhhhh so shiny and new.

Edited by - on

Mark Loyacano
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 21:21:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 For what it is worth... I bought a new fitting but when the old one was unwilling to budge I decided that if it ain't broke don't fix it. My bracket awaits another day.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It is hard to imagine what the old fitting was torqued to or worse, what sealant or thread locker was used. Mine was installed with "red" Permatex thread locker. It required substantial heat to release it. I used a different kind going back in.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 21:35:25

Mark, when a breaker bar didn't work I chickened out.

Albert, I replaced the cable and ball recently and my ball did not hav e the double pin you have.

I hope you got the new hose and new clamps from CD, they are important.
Have you looked here
http://homepage.mac.com/fhopper/PhotoAlbum36.html

Edited by - on

Mark Loyacano
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 22:55:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 I hope you got the new hose and new clamps from CD, they are important.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I used a new heavy duty radiator hose, silicone around the base (inside the hose and on the outside of the "to hull") and double stainless clamps. It was just the right size diameter. No leaks in several years. To remove it (to inspect the ball and pin) just grab it with both hands and twist hard...pops right off).

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 23:08:38

Mark wrote..."red" Permatex thread locker. It required substantial heat to release it. I used a different kind going back in."

The new style keel fitting has a locking pin that prevents the bolt from backing out... so I put never-seize on my threads. Should be easy the next time.

Edited by - on

albert
Captain

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USA
262 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2004 : 02:48:14

I'm considering replacing the winch, but someone recently wrote that <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">the fitting for the winch handle on the original was sort of recessd in the vertical part of the steps. The new one sticks out about an inch and a half from the vertical part of the step. So, we cut a hole in a tennis ball and slip it on to save scraping one's leg.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Has anyone else encountered this?

If the above is true for all replacement winches (catalina yachts vs catalina direct, etc), I think I'll baking soda blast, clean, paint, and rebuild the original winch.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2004 : 06:05:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I got my parts today, ohhhhhh so shiny and new<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I can't even get the local marina to call me back so I can order the cable and ball.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2004 : 10:08:37

"I think I'll baking soda blast, clean, paint, and rebuild the original winch."

When you dismantle the winch, you'll find that there's not much that can go wrong with it. I 'overhauled' (cleaned/painted/lubricated) mine and I think it's good to go for another 25 years. Not like they get enough 'mileage' to really wear 'em out.

Now, if they'd just galvanized them at the factory... well I guess that's not a good idea from their point of view, they wouldn't be selling any replacements.

Edited by - on

Scotd
Navigator

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USA
136 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2004 : 10:22:46

Does anyone know about the double pin with the keel ball? The old one was a single Pin??

Edited by - on

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