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re-worked bimini

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John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/13/2004 : 19:48:01

For several seasons I have been using a C.D. C25 bimini but found it a little lacking. For one thing it was really too wide and I probably made a mistake ordering the shark skin cover. the shark skin must be tasty to mice because over the winter the cover was chewed up. That was enough to put me in a re-build mode. I took the old shark skin off, drilled out all the rivets and cut 3 inches off each side and then put the thing back together. I took the frame to my nearby Amish canvas guy and had a new top made using sunbrella. I also had him make Isenglas side and front curtains. It really looks great, with the old width it was impossible to walk around the side without falling in the drink. the 3 inches on each side did the trick. now here's the problem. My canvas guy used regular snaps to fix the side and front curtains to the cabin top and the wind today blew it right in. What do you call the canvas snaps that fit through a metal collar
and then twist to lock. I think that is the best way to secure the bottom of this.

John V.
Nin Bimash II
Neebish Island, MI
77 C25 sk/sr #153

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2004 : 19:54:43

[url="http://secure.sailrite.com/value/Index.asp?CartId={08F248EVERESTE6-039F-425D-B0A9-BCF75F0AC907}"]Twist Locks[/url] under Fasteners and Tools

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2004 : 20:01:44

"twist to lock..." I'm doinking myself on the head- twist locks.

Thanks

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2004 : 20:21:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John V.
 For several seasons I have been using a C.D. C25 bimini but found it a little lacking. For one thing it was really too wide...I took the old shark skin off, drilled out all the rivets and cut 3 inches off each side and then put the thing back together...It really looks great, with the old width it was impossible to walk around the side without falling in the drink. The 3 inches on each side did the trick...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

John,

I'm trying to visualize how making the bimini narrower made going forward easier...I would think that a wider bimini would allow one to go foreward to the sidedecks easier.

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2004 : 20:54:57

Hi Don,
before I trimmed it, the bimini was so wide that in order to step around to the foredeck I would have to grab the boom to keep from falling overboard. Now I can walk along the deck without problem. The alternative was crawling out under the cover banging up my knees.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2004 : 21:28:38

Gotcha...I didn't think of walking alongside the bimini to get to the foredeck.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2004 : 21:55:07

John: Expanding on Don's question, what was and is the width of your frame? Where did you have the deck mounts, and where are they now so that you're more comfortable moving around the bimini?

My new bimini didn't get installed last year--I had some more pressing issues... but will be putting it on this Spring. I'm interested in everybody's opinions on where it should go. My plan is to mount it at about the center of the side decks just forward of the winch islands. I'm putting adjustable rigid support struts in place of the aft straps, and straps forward. That way, I figure I can release the forward straps to be able to get around it and go forward--the bimini will rest on the struts. That's where it will stay when folded.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/13/2004 21:57:08

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2004 : 23:07:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 ...My plan is to mount it at about the center of the side decks just forward of the winch islands. I'm putting adjustable rigid support struts in place of the aft straps, and straps forward. That way, I figure I can release the forward straps to be able to get around it and go forward--the bimini will rest on the struts. That's where it will stay when folded.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dave,

The only issues I see in your proposed mounting point is with the jib sheet and, if you have one, the power inlet.

I have a 135 genoa and my track car is generally in the area between the C25 logo and just forward of the winch. In this poorly cropped photo, you can just make out my jib car just below the "25" in the logo.

Before permanently mounting your bimini you might want to set it up to check both the jib sheet and power inlet.

Issues that I have with my bimini...

Since my bimini frame is so close to the winch, I can't get a full crank on the winch handle, but this isn't that big a deal since it ratchets.

You can't see it in the photo, but since the lifelines narrow as they go to the stern rail, they have to go through the fore and aft bimini frame (forward bimini frame is inboard of the lifelines and the rear frame is outboard). This means that when I want to either lower the bimini forward or aft, I must release the lifeline pelican hooks and pull them out through the bimini frame. Again, no big deal, but its there.

When releasing my bimini forward or aft, the boom must be raised a foot or two so the bimini can clear it. A topping lift led to the cabintop makes this an easy thing to do.

One thing that I see with your rigid strut is that it might make getting onboard a little trickier. My finger dock goes all the way aft and to board my boat, I release the quick release buckle on the aft bimini frame and then unhook the lifeline. This allows me and my guests to step through the foot or so gap between the bimini and stern rail. This may not be an issue with you, but because of water levels, I must step down into my cockpit. Additionally, it may be a little hard for my guests to board from the front because you have to be somewhat of a contortionist to go this route.

Yes, you could release the forward straps and let the bimini fall aft so guests can board, but for me to do this on my boat the routine would go something like this...

1. Release both port and starboard lifeline pelican hooks and route them back through bimini frame.

2. Release mainsheet

3. Raise boom two feet with topping lift.

4. Tension mainsheet (Guests always grab the boom for balance)

5. Release forward port and starboard bimini straps and allow bimini to fall back

6. Board guests

To board guests with my setup, I just release the aft port bimini strap and one pelican hook.

Edited by - dlucier on 04/13/2004 23:15:49

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2004 : 23:32:47

Dave, I won't repost my [url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4119&whichpage=2&SearchTerms=bimini"]photos[/url], but you might remember that the bimini on Antares is similar to Don's. I just noticed when reviewing the photos that one of us has his mounted backwards. Anyway, I have all the same issues that Don listed. However, we've just become used to ducking under the strap or stepping through the "V" to board. You'll notice the location of my genoa car which is set in its 150% position. I don't remember if you can see how the frame conflicts with my shorepower on port, but I highly recommend figuring out a way to "dry mount" and test multiple configurations before permanently mounting your bimini. All things considered, my setup works for me and I'm sure other setups have their own sets of problems. Best of luck!

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2004 : 23:44:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Antares
 ...you might remember that the bimini on Antares is similar to Don's. I just noticed when reviewing the photos that one of us has his mounted backwards...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Is it me?

After looking around at bimini's at other websites, it looks like mine is in the correct orientation with the main part of the frame leaning aft and the other supports leaning forward.

Phew!...That was close!

Edited by - dlucier on 04/14/2004 01:34:21

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 00:00:52

J.B.,

Your bimini appears to be taller than mine. Do you have a special setup...ie, reefed main, to get it that high.

In my picture, the lifeline is pretty much halfway between the top and bottom of the bimini frame, but your lifeline looks to be only one third of the total distance.

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 07:25:38

My Bimini is mounted on the cockpit combing just aft of the coach. this way the shade covers the companionway hatch, and there is a large enough gap to allow the winch handle to be worked without interference. I also substituted back legs for the aft straps. it makes the installation more solid. I need to get to school but I'll try to post a photo this evening.

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 09:19:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 J.B., Your bimini appears to be taller than mine. Do you have a special setup...ie, reefed main, to get it that high.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No special setup, other than having a sail stop below the boom that is set a few inches below the point at which the mains'l is fully hoisted. However, after reading all the tall rig discussions on the forum I'm going to measure the mast this weekend.

I believe in the other thread I discussed the light air, to-weather problems the strakes were causing and the adjustments I've had to make while sailing. I'm going to have to make some more permanent changes this Spring in order to eliminate the excessive weatherhelm in heavy air also created by the setup. We just keep learning more and more, don't we?

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 11:56:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Antares
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 J.B., Your bimini appears to be taller than mine. Do you have a special setup...ie, reefed main, to get it that high.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No special setup, other than having a sail stop below the boom that is set a few inches below the point at which the mains'l is fully hoisted. However, after reading all the tall rig discussions on the forum I'm going to measure the mast this weekend...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

J.B.,

After re-reading the bimini topic you posted, it appears that your boom is a foot or more higher than mine so I would think that your boat has had some sort of customization that gives you this added boom height.

Dave,

One more thing you need to watch out for when installing the bimini is the mainsheet. To maximize cockpit coverage, my bimini is located as far aft as it can possibly go without interfering with the mainsheet. When testing your mounting location, I recommend putting up your mainsail and testing the fit with both the main sheeted in tight and also with the boom out over the sides to make sure the mainsheet fiddle block will clear the aft corners of the bimini.

And one more thing, when I'm sailing downwind with the boom way out over the side, the mainsheet rests on the aft hold down straps. This hasn't been a problem since there isn't that much tension on the mainsheet on this point of sail.

Edited by - dlucier on 04/14/2004 11:59:55

Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 16:20:01

I proudly fly my bimini backwards. I felt that it fit my boat better this way and restricted access to the cockpit less in the 'backwards' configuation. Of course, my kids all think of me being backwards most of the time anyway, so no big deal. I also cut 6 inches of width off of the bows to make more room for the side decks and it worked very well. I like the idea of a solid leg either fore or aft to make the rig stiffer. Keep us posted on how that works out. I have started making the clear plastic front curtain (wind shield). I made a template last week end and then spent last night tracing it out on the plastic. My wife's sewing skills will hopefully keep me from making too many errors. My bimini seems much lower then the photo Don posted. When I really sheet in hard the boom just clears the bimini, I have a standard rig.

This is the view before I moved the supports off of the jib traveler or narrowed the bows. Very difficult manuvering forward along the side decks.

This is the current position of the supports and now that I have narrowed the bows I can pass fairly easily.

John V. thanks for a very timely subject for me. Keep us posted and I will try to remember to take photos of my project.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 19:08:30

John and Ed,

I hope you guys are tethered to the boat when you two are doing the Flying Walenda's manuever around the bimini.

Because my bimini frame is wide and mounted aft near the winch instead of by the logo, I can release a forward bimini strap then step out onto the side deck by the logo and then walk forward.

Usually, I just step through the companionway and place a foot on the aft dinette seatback then go up on the cabintop. As a singlehanded sailor, I find this to be the safest route to the foredeck, but if I wanted to be extra careful, I can simply raise the boom and release the forward straps and the bimini, frame and all, will be out of the way as I step onto the sidedeck.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2004 : 21:22:22

Don, Ed, John, and JB... Thanks for the great tips and helpful pics! I certainly plan on "dry mounting" it and checking the mainsheet and jib sheets before drilling holes. Regarding access from the dock, we board in my slip from astern--I even took the center section of the stern rail out to ease boarding. However, I have to plan for other docks... My thought is that the strut will not be as high on the main (aft) bow as the straps are, so I'm hoping that I can step over/aft of the strut and forward of the sternrail to board. Otherwise, when tied up alongside a dock, I can leave the bimini folded back against the struts for better access. I do plan to run my topping lift to one of my cabintop clutches, so I should be able to raise the boom to swing the forward bow back fairly easily.

The AC outlet is a minor issue--I don't use it and don't trust it (due to likely corrosion). If I decide I want shore power, I'll install another connection inside the coaming compartments, sheltered from saltwater and weather. That leaves the jib sheets as the big question...

It'll be interesting, but the shelter from sun and rain will make it all worthwhile. I wish my Admiral, for whom I got it, were here to enjoy it. Now, it'll be for my guests.

I'll report back as it takes shape, or when I have some urgent questions before drilling...

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2004 : 09:08:24

Thanks for all the great responses. My server was down last evening so I was unable to post a photo of the bim the way I have it set. It now works like an oversize dodger. I'm posting this from school. My chamber choir has been requested for a funeral which we do from time to time. The grandfather of one of our students. I'll try to show you my set up this evening. Among the many upgrades this spring I have replaced the forward stay plate with the CD upgrade + roller, I'm putting in a screened port on the starboard cockpit well. That gives Grace a little more air and light in the bearcave (pilot berth)
I am putting a 16 gallon fuel tank in the port sail locker. Tired of fuel jugs on deck, it will be actively vented through the port combing box (where we put line gloves, winch handles etc.) I had to take out the wood partition to get the tank in, and will be building a shelf to which the tank will be secured. this will give us an auxillary range of about 150 miles. this will be helpful on the Isle Royal cruise as there are few places within the park where one can buy gas and I'm betting that the price this summer will be near $5 per gallon. (the fuel has to be brought in by barge and there is considerable cost above the near $2 gal at present in the UP.

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Sid
Navigator

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Response Posted - 04/15/2004 : 13:35:33

John,
When you post pics of the bimini, how about some of the fuel tank? I'm contemplating the same project on my 77 C25. Never felt comfortable with the outboard tank not vented outside the locker (even with the cowl vents).
Thanks,
Sid

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John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2004 : 16:59:31

I will post a step by step photo display of the tank instalation Sid,
meanwhile here is the bim pic.....

Edited by - John V. on 04/15/2004 17:02:33

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2004 : 17:56:39

Nice dodger, John!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2004 : 21:17:23

The Mother of All Dodgers! Love it!

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2004 : 21:32:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 ...And I am glad you are still here with us, it will be a shame if you ever sell your boat and we lose you.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thanks, Frank. I'm giving it another season, waiting to see where I end up going. One way or the other, I don't expect to give up this forum--I'll be the "curmudgeon emeritus."

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Ed Montague
Captain

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Response Posted - 04/16/2004 : 15:07:27

John, I hope that mine turns out half as nice. Great job and I would wager much less expensive then the $1200 most dodger makers want.

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Greg Jackson
1st Mate

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84 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2004 : 23:23:27

For people who have more trouble with wind, cold, and rain and less issues with a beating sun, I might also suggest the micro dodger design. I did this several years ago and I still like it.

There is a photo in the tech tips section for C25.

Greg Jackson

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2004 : 23:34:56

Hi Ed,
The new bim made out of sunbrella and isenglas 12 mil I believe, cost around $600 plus the cost of the frame from the old bim. I think thats a lot less than the cost of a comercial bimini. The Ohio Amish are not opposed to using mechanical devices in their work so Junior Miller, who runs Chesterville Canvas uses heavy duty machines to stich with, There is power coming into his workshop but the house has no power or indoor plumbing. I can't tell if his wife runs a laundry or if they have so many kids that it just seems that way.

That's the news from Ohio where all the children have good teeth!

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