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Head Water Question

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Jared
1st Mate

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USA
70 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/19/2004 : 07:41:21

We went sailing this weekend and it was really the first time out with all the hull fittings open and all that and the first time using the fixed head this year. We had used the head and flushed it near dry and then when we got back to the slip, it was full with water almost to the top! We were healed over 15-20 degrees at times and I am thinking maybe there is a gate valve or something in the line to the head that was letting water into the head. Anyone else experience this before or have any idea?

Jared Jamison
86 C25 #5354 FK/TR "Saba Rocks" Richmond, VA

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2004 : 08:49:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jared
 We went sailing this weekend and it was really the first time out with all the hull fittings open and all that and the first time using the fixed head this year. We had used the head and flushed it near dry and then when we got back to the slip, it was full with water almost to the top! We were healed over 15-20 degrees at times and I am thinking maybe there is a gate valve or something in the line to the head that was letting water into the head. Anyone else experience this before or have any idea?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I haven't had this problem with my fixed head, but I only open my head intake valve when actually flushing the head.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2004 : 09:43:44

I think more than one boat has been damaged by leaving the head valves open when underway.

If the water level on the outside is higher than the head, water will try to flow in. Ditto for sink drains etc. Best practice is to close 'em when not being used.

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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2004 : 10:45:52

Hi Jared,

The water intake valve should be closed when the head is not being used. Even sitting still at the dock or at anchor, the head tends to syphon water - filling the bowl and flooding the boat. I remember very well entering the head compartment one morning while on vacation in the San Juans last summer to find 2.5 inches of water (up to the sill), and the toilet bowl filled to the rim. One of my guests had used the head during the night and failed to close the thru hull valve.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

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Jared
1st Mate

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USA
70 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2004 : 12:59:32

Thanks,

I have always been leaving my seacocks open all the time. I guess I should open them only when I need to, huh? I am sure I didn't have to learn it the way that you had to learn it Bill!

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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2004 : 13:20:19

Yep close the through hulls when sailing. You also may not have an anti syphon valve in your system . The anti syphon system is a loop that is routed up above the waterline with a valve at the top of the loop and then back down to the head. This little vent valve breaks the syphon action in the tube. Problem with Catalina is they didn't put this system in. At least not in their older boats.

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Scotd
Navigator

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USA
136 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2004 : 15:37:05

This is the way mine is set up, its also connected to the sink, so if I pump water into the sink the water in the toilet bowl comes up.

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2004 : 15:49:00

Interesting topic. I can't get any water in the bowl when I try to flush. I'm wondering if there is a blockage somewhere or if I need to buy the rebuild kit. I have the Groco MF model. Any ideas as to the problem?

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Scotd
Navigator

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USA
136 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2004 : 16:19:00

Ben is yours conected to a thru-hull in the v-birth and then to the sink?

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2004 : 23:20:58

Jared (and any others with a raw water flushed marine head)<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">We had used the head and flushed it near dry and then when we got back to the slip, it was full with water almost to the top! We were healed over 15-20 degrees at times and I am thinking maybe there is a gate valve or something in the line to the head that was letting water into the head.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">As others have mentioned, outside water can siphon into the bowl if the flush valve is left in the "WET" or "FLUSH" position with the head intake seacock open unless there is a siphon breaker installed. When I installed my MSD system, I mounted a 3/4" siphon breaker up under the side deck in the hose from the flush pump to the bowl rim. I've left the head intake seacock open for a month at a time while cruising, and never had the water level in the bowl rise.

If the 1-1/2" head output hose goes directly into the top of a holding tank mounted no higher than the bowl rim, and can't be routed overboard with a Y-valve, then there's no need for a siphon breaker in that hose.

My head intake hose is T'ed into the same seacock as the head sink drain. On short trips and after long trips, I flush with fresh water by leaving the seacock closed and running a quart or so of tank water into the sink before flushing.

I hope this helps. Head plumbing is something you really want to get right the first time!

-- Leon Sisson

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Jared
1st Mate

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USA
70 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2004 : 06:55:26

So, does the siphoning action come from the fact that I may have possibly turned the Y-valve the wrong direction so that it is dumping overboard instead of into the holding tank? I didn't mean for this to happen, but that Y-valve is strange and hard to figure out what direction it is sending the output. From the comment above, it sounds like if I was dumping into the holding tank, there would be no problem. Mine has one Y-valve as head input/sink output one one side of the head and then on the other side there is another Y-valve to choose dumping into holding tank/overboard.

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2004 : 08:13:36

Scott,

Yes, my a hose goes from my head to a thru-hull in the v-berth, then to the sink in the head area. The waste gets pumped to a holding tank. I don't have an option dump overboard, (not that I would, in my little reservoir.)

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Scotd
Navigator

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USA
136 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2004 : 12:53:52

Ben

Try to fill your sink with water with the valve in the v-birth closed and see if the water goes in to the toilet(gravity will cause the water in the toilet to rise). Make sure that the valve is closed, because it will just run thru the valve to under the boat if not.

Edited by - Scotd on 04/21/2004 12:04:25

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2004 : 07:33:58

Thanks for the advice, Scot. I'll try that next time I'm on the boat, probably today or tomorrow. I'm pretty sure I tried that last year though, with the water level in the toilet remaining the same (very low).

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