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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Use a short shaft?

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Initially Posted - 04/19/2004 : 15:58:28

I need to move my "new" C-25 from the east end of Long Island to the Great South Bay. The 7.5 Honda long shaft that came with the boat is not circulating cooling water, so I can't use it. Can I use an 8HP short shaft for this move? Aside from not being efficient, will it move the boat?

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2004 : 16:35:43

Yes, put it on the dingy that your are towing the C25 with.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/19/2004 : 20:46:09

I'd say maybe... depending on conditions and how much 'drop' your motor mount has. I think my garhauer mount would drop a short shaft far enough in the 'far down' position to work 'ok'... as long as you're on flat water anyway.

Swell or chop and you're toast... you don't wanna be toast.

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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
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Response Posted - 04/20/2004 : 00:43:22

I am going to be trying a SS on my boat for racing season when I really just need it to get in/out of the marina. The comment that with swell or chop you'd be toast is correct.....but in that case you would have WIND! Sail the sucker and use the engine for flat water. I'd say go for it, if the motor mount will get the engine in the water. As you move, the stern will start to squat anyway and the prop will go deeper.....I would NOT go this route permanently, but in a pinch, depending on weather and conditions.....why not?

Gary B.
Vice Commodore

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2004 : 08:03:33

Just remember:

Murphy is waiting for you

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Response Posted - 04/20/2004 : 08:54:18

With a good eye on the weather I going to go for it. I checked the owners manual and it states that a long shaft is preferable but a standard shaft is adequate for most conditions (I guess they mean no chop). If there's chop, there's wind and I'm sailing. Murphy always sails with me, he likes to keep me entertained. Thanks all for the input.

Brad
C-25 "Magic"

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2004 : 10:53:38

We used a short shaft to initally move the boat until our longer shaft came in (about 5 years ago)... just make sure your prop is in the water. Gary is correct in saying the back end will drop in little as you build up speed. If your just a bit short, you can always adjust the weight. We got two Healthy friends along with myself (politically correct way to say three fat A$$e$) to sit aft. and moved everything out of the forepeak and pulled the anchor out of the locker and stuck it all in the quarterberth.....

every millimeter will help.

Gary - When racing, we try and sail or grab a tow out to the course and do the same to get back in so we don't even have the motor on board. Not sure if you can afford to do that with the river currents, but why carry the weight if you don't have to.

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Gary B.
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Response Posted - 04/20/2004 : 11:28:15

Duane: Because the class rules state that you must have a minimum of 45 pounds of OB and gas aboard!

(I did not double check this, but from my feeble memory, I am quite sure that it's part of the class rules......) Of course, I could go sans motor if I wanted in PHRF. Out here on the Columbia River, one MUST be prepared to avoid commercial traffic which is restricted to a dredged channel. If it is drifty conditions: Need the engine!

Gary B.
Commodore of Vice

Found it:
I. REQUIRED SAFETY EQUIPMENT
General - Every yacht while racing shall have aboard the following:
1. An operable outboard motor whose combined weight with associated fuel tank must weigh at least 40 pounds. Should this weight limitation not be met, then ballast must be added to meet the above weight requirement. Engine must be mounted and ready to use (1985). No minimum horsepower requirement for outboard motor (1993).

(see...? My memory is bad; I thought it was 45 # and it's only 40!

Edited by - Gary B. on 04/20/2004 11:38:25

Derek Crawford
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3323 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2004 : 11:45:37

Gary - our PHRF requires a 6 second "hit" if you don't have a motor on board. Does the NW PHRF do the same?
Derek

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MattL
Admiral

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990 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2004 : 15:46:32

Just another question. Gary mentioned having to avoid commercial traffic. If you have to start the motor to avoid a large cargo container bearing down on you are you disqualified from the race?

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/20/2004 : 16:38:26

didn't realize you raced one design class rules....guess you have to.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/20/2004 : 16:39:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MattL
 Just another question. Gary mentioned having to avoid commercial traffic. If you have to start the motor to avoid a large cargo container bearing down on you are you disqualified from the race?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

According to what I've read with respect to their rules, as long as you do not better your position you are not disqualified.

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Todd Frye
Navigator

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USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2004 : 17:13:38

I have a 7.5 Honda LS on my SR/SK and did some winter maintenance because I too was getting no cooling water coming out. Now we all know with things mechanical, that the fix has gotta be difficult, rather than easy. Having said that, my fix was easy. I ordered a replacement water manifold gasket, a carb rebuild kit and started taking things apart. The water passages in the water cooling manifold were real crusty...lots of deposits. I sat down with a heavy duty dental pick and compressed air and got things cleaned up pretty good. Cleaned the carb, put everything back together and Voila, cooling water in a steady stream on crank up. I haven't replaced a water pump yet, and I guess they do fail, but the preventive maintenance did it for me. Hope I haven't clouded your decisions too much. Fair Winds. Todd Frye.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2004 : 21:54:15

Brad: Getting back to your question, a "short shaft" is something like 15" from the inside top of the clamp to the anticavitation plate. If the top of your bracket's mounting board (full down) is more than 15" above the loaded waterline, you'll be cavitating in flat water. The good news is that the boat squats somewhat under power, so if the plate is at or just below the waterline at rest, it'll be a few inches below while under way. In flat water, that'll get you there--with a little howling when you encounter boat wakes. If the seas get to 2', things will get noisy.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2004 : 22:20:21

One of my driving issues that made me go to so much trouble to get a new mount was the issue of someone on the foredeck while under way. When my son would go forward to haul down a sail or cast off the bow lines or any number of things the engine would lift out and raise heck! And that is with an XLS! The mount and the shaft length need to get the job done together, neither gets the job done alone.

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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2004 : 03:27:09

Duane is right....the skipper can start the engine to clear commercial traffic as long as he/she does not better position and reports to the RC immediately after the race.

Since engines are required, I think your point about a 6 second "hit" is moot, Derek, at least in races on the Columbia, or One Design races including the Nationals...Engines are required...period. On an inland lake where one could get out there with a tow, etc.....different situation altogether. i think I should ge time for racing with a Yamaha 4 stroke 9.9 back there! But it ain't gonna happen....

Gary B.
Commodore of Vice.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2004 : 08:21:18

I just gave a throrough re-read of the rules.... I sit corrected. Since we only race the <s>winnebago</s> (oops did I say that outloud...)Catalina 25 twice a year and we dock near the J-24 put-in it probably only seemed natural that someone was getting a tow.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">15.3 AUXILIARY POWER - Any boat (except for "R" rated boats) which is unable to motor either to the starting line or from the finish line of a race shall be subject to protest either by the race committee or another boat. On outboard rated boats, outboards must be carried on board and must be capable of being reinstalled in their normal motoring position while underway. The protested boat is subject to inspection by a Lake Erie PHRF measurer at the request of the protest committee. If the boat is found not to be in its rated racing trim with respect to motor, fuel, propeller, strut, and shaft it will be subject to time allowance penalty or disqualification from the race or series. Notification by the boat to the race committee is recommended and may avoid a protest and either a time allowance penalty or disqualification.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

We can throw it down below which at least allows us to balance all the weight.

dw

Edited by - Champipple on 04/21/2004 08:23:30

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2004 : 08:34:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary B.
 ...Since engines are required,...I think I should get time for racing with a Yamaha 4 stroke 9.9 back there! But it ain't gonna happen....

Gary B.
Commodore of Vice.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Would a lightweight electric outboard be race legal?

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2004 : 10:16:43

That's a good thought, Don! However, it depends on where you race and what PHRF protocol you use. I believe So.California requires a motor "sufficient to drive the boat at hull speed", Canyon Lake's is "operable motor on board" and our Class Rules are as Gary B. stated. So, if that little electric job weighs 40 lbs - it's legal for our Nationals UNLESS the local body has other requirements. At least, that's my take on it...
Derek

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2004 : 11:50:50

This Briggs and Stratton electric motor is 3hp with 150 lb. thrust...Might be enough to get the boat moving.

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